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kyle.vh
Since 11 Jul 2007
713 Posts
city of angels
Addicted
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 Thu Jul 17, 08 8:11 pm |
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| gabe wrote: | this issue does not need to be made into some controversy.
if you were recommending kites to your friend or family member to learn on, what would you get them? probably not the kites that Forrest is warning against. simple.
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I agree, Forrest makes a solid point. That a sticky explaining the basic situation is a good idea. But for some people, an older C kite will be a safe, cheap, intro kite. For example, I recently recommended that my brother use pre 05 C kites to learn on because they're so cheap. He loves them, and is progressing quickly.
| gabe wrote: |
also, although most of us probably learned on c kites, with so many people flying flat kites now, people don't treat it as such a dangerous sport, and are a lot more casual about launching, landing, walking around with kites overhead, etc. if someone saw all that behavior and then acted the same way on a c kite, there could be some issues. |
A lot of people get in trouble with their flat kite, being lulled into false safety. The launch at Stevenson is one example. I've seen 'advanced' kiters rip they're new kites in half there. And, I've watched this canadian dude learn on old C kites, self launching at stevenson.
It's the kiter, not the kite. But I will say again that in general, F's advice is good, and a sticky or newbie link's a good idea.
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dangerD
Since 27 Jun 2005
223 Posts
Bingen Heights
Stoked
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| Thu Jul 17, 08 8:27 pm |
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dats it! C kites are three wheelers!
theyre fun, they rally, and you can learn on them if youre not a puss...
They are dangerous, but they have a "death trap" reputation because of many gaper casualties
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dangerD
Since 27 Jun 2005
223 Posts
Bingen Heights
Stoked
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| Thu Jul 17, 08 8:28 pm |
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And flatkites are 4 wheelers... more stable and lame, better in the hands of a begginer... Great for going back and forth
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Kodiak
Since 01 Aug 2005
1114 Posts
Slidey
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| Thu Jul 17, 08 9:49 pm |
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| I must respectfully disagree. Both 4 wheelers and 3 wheelers are lame. Dirt bikes are where its at.
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jblum
Since 13 Jul 2008
307 Posts
The Gorge
Obsessed
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| Thu Jul 17, 08 10:05 pm |
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| kyle.vh wrote: | I intentionally bought pre-05 kites because they were cheap. I learned to be a very competent kiter on them. I think there are other folks that can/should do this as well. Why spend 3k to see if you like kiting if you can spend under $500?
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I think Kyle hit it right on. I intentionally bought older kites ('04 GTO and '04 Fuel) to learn on and see if I liked the sport, and now that I get it, I'm trying some new gear and am going to drop my $1-2k buying good kites I know are right for my style and ability.
Just my 2cents, but the best things I did as a newbie were getting someone who knew their stuff to show me the ropes, always asking for help on the beach, and showing respect to everyone by not getting in over my head and getting rocked out there.
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JHB |
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pdxmonkeyboy
Since 16 May 2006
6081 Posts
forever labled as the
retired kiter & motorhead Unicorn Master
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| Thu Jul 17, 08 10:08 pm |
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| Kodiak wrote: | | I must respectfully disagree. Both 4 wheelers and 3 wheelers are lame. Dirt bikes are where its at. |
Word. Anything that you can sit on while its standing still is never that fun.
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Moto
Since 03 Sep 2006
2698 Posts
Still a gojo pimp!
Moto Mouth
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| Thu Jul 17, 08 10:41 pm |
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I gotta give a shout out to the '05 fuels. They aren't the most technologically advanced kites - but they are stable and have somewhat decent depower. These are not the killer kites that people should avoid like Jason from Friday the 13th - on halloween - in a dark alley - at midnight - without any stars or moon - with a black cat crossing your path . . .
OK - seriously, if you are talking old school kites they do not have a lot of depower. Which means that when a gust comes you can get smacked right on your face. If you are in the water - well, you you do a belly flop and most likely your kite will come crashing down tomahawk style (hopefully no one is underneath you). If you are on land and a gust comes and you are not prepared - you can get dragged dirty superman style.
Old school C kites can be ridden and used to learn - but the risk of injuring yourself or someone around you is greater than a newer kite.
Forrest is just trying to protect himself and his fellow kiter. The sand spit (where I'm pretty sure Forrest has taken up a temporary residence) is a very crowded place with tons of new people. These new people pose a risk of injuring themselves and the people around them - people get dragged on the sand, they tomahawk people - they slam their kites into other kites - this sh*t just happens down there. This type of unsafe behavior is heightened without the ability to depower - the new people are not able to control the power and the kite gets out of hand. If you do not believe me - come out to the spit next weekend (this weekend is reserved for the GG). You can see first hand what type of havoc and chaos can occur in a crowded beach with many, many beginners.
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Still rockin gojos, *ssless chaps, and ankle weights! |
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4_me_2_poop_on
Since 17 Jul 2008
7 Posts
New Member
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| Thu Jul 17, 08 10:49 pm |
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my 3 wheeler/4 wheeler comparison had more to do with new/old rather than c kite/bow kite. the c kites these days are plenty stable and most have as much or almost as much depower as the bow kites. whatever floats your boat in my opinion.
| dangerD wrote: | | And flatkites are 4 wheelers... more stable and lame, better in the hands of a begginer... Great for going back and forth |
not sure why they're all lame, at least they're not too lame for Dre to ride. but then maybe you think he's lame and his riding is not legit in some way?
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Blue
Since 03 Jul 2007
469 Posts
I used to be
Obsessed
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| Thu Jul 17, 08 10:54 pm |
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| pdxmonkeyboy wrote: | | Anything that you can sit on while its standing still is never that fun. |
That would depend on a gender, I presume.
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just wear sunscreen
Last edited by Blue on Fri Jul 18, 08 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Spike
Since 13 May 2007
1414 Posts
Alameda
Spelling Expert
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| Thu Jul 17, 08 11:02 pm |
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[quote="Blue"] | pdxmonkeyboy wrote: | | Kodiak wrote: | | Anything that you can sit on while its standing still is never that fun. |
That would depend on a gender, I presume. |
HAHAHA!!
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blowhard
Since 26 Dec 2005
2027 Posts
Windward
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| Fri Jul 18, 08 8:04 am |
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obviously many views on this
but if a dumb fuck like me can get up and going after 3 lessons in a tiny lake
on a kite that wouln't go upwind for anybody (it's why I got it?!)2000 sling
I'm pretty sure someone else can also do it.
now for the judgement thing
If you are in a crowded situation and have no help (lesson)
you are a danger to everyone
thats not a fault of the gear
it's you being a moron and endangering yourself and everyone else
if you buy junky gear you are ignorant
if you don't know how to rig you are ignorant etc,
get some fuking help dumbshit
all kites act up, some more than others
this ain't knitting
I don't know all about modern kites but my 2006 and 2008 sle kites generate and enormus amount of power weather "depowered" or not
in fact my sle kites generate the MOST power when sheeted out and sined hard while leaning back on front lines
like one might do while falling over backwards and pulling in on the bar on one side 
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sleestack
Since 07 Dec 2006
184 Posts
Land of the Lost
Stoked
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| Fri Jul 18, 08 8:45 am |
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[quote="stringer"]. . .
Maybe even get somebody's 3 year old to draw us a nice map or two.
This way we can answer newbie questions by telling them to click the link, leaving us more space on the main board to talk about unicorns and related things.
quote]
Hey ROD or TODD, not sure which brother you are, instead of being a startass, why don't you be proactive and make the map yourself and send it to PKH. I'm sure PKH has much to do, and not enough time. Yes, the spots sections could use a touch-up, but they work.
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forrest
Since 21 Jun 2005
4330 Posts
Hood River
Hick
CGKA Member
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| Fri Jul 18, 08 8:55 am |
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| Again, this was just about making a recommendation to the uninformed. Just because you had success with some older kites doesn't mean it's okay. When most of us were learning we had no choice. Now there is a choice, if you're informed.
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Wind Slither
Since 04 Mar 2005
2624 Posts
The 503
METAL
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| Fri Jul 18, 08 9:02 am |
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I think we can all agree that many newer designs have safety adavantages of:
More depower (for C-kites I think this is more about bar design)
Better stability
Easier water relaunch
For me, these improvements make for a better kite but not a "much, mcuh, safer" kite. Nor do they automatically render the older designs as "nasty and dangerous".
Several people have referenced certain older C kites as being "really dangerous" and I am curious which ones people have in mind. The Naish V4 was mentioned, and I remember this kite as being a fairly benign low aspect cruiser.
I would be interested in a list of specific models that people consider "death traps" to be avoided. None of them would be on the retail market anymore so PKH shouldn't care.
Finally, and I promise I'll shut up now... 
A warning to new kite buyers is a good idea, how about:
All traction kites can cause serious or fatal injuries. The most common accident is getting pulled into hard objects at high speed. Many newer designs offer safety advantages such as greater depower and control. You should consult with your local retailer or certified kite instructor before making your first kite purchase.
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manplesvanuatu
Since 17 Jul 2008
15 Posts
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| Fri Jul 18, 08 9:15 am |
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Hey all,
Good dialogs and some pretty funny stuff coming out of this in the end. All in all, I think we don't mean to preach and take sides on type of kites..(I am just opiniate on those old, very old c-kites circa 2000-2003 he!he!)
Bottom line is that we don't want some clueless person to get hurt:-)
one writer said something like.."there are some people who just go out there and figure out as they go. And the are so clueless that it is just plain dumb".. I could not agree more.
some people are fast learners and can figure things quick! Unfortunately it is not the case for the population...so those are the ones I try to worry for when I originally sent out that long post (hahaha! take it lightly ok guys?)
As for the C-kites:
heck I want to try a fuel one of these days ( I fly bow kites at the moment) cause you look at the top guys flying them and the old timers..they can do some amazing stuff with it.
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4_me_2_poop_on
Since 17 Jul 2008
7 Posts
New Member
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| Fri Jul 18, 08 10:03 am |
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sleestack, i almost went into a seizure looking at your avatar! lol
wind slither, the v4 was a mid to high aspect kite, not as high as some of the other's, but definitely higher aspect than the boxer. horrible beginner kite. (given the choice).
| Wind Slither wrote: |
All traction kites can cause serious or fatal injuries. The most common accident is getting pulled into hard objects at high speed. Many newer designs offer safety advantages such as greater depower and control. You should consult with your local retailer or certified kite instructor before making your first kite purchase.
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I think your statement is quite good, and pretty well rounded. you've got my vote.
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Blue
Since 03 Jul 2007
469 Posts
I used to be
Obsessed
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| Sun Jul 20, 08 10:19 pm |
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| Forrest wrote: | | Again, this was just about making a recommendation to the uninformed. Just because you had success with some older kites doesn't mean it's okay. When most of us were learning we had no choice. Now there is a choice, if you're informed. |
I think its time to take this discussion to the CGKA forum. I am 100% with you on that one Forrest. It would certainly make sense to have good info from the experienced members of the kiting community readily available on our site. I started to work on the beginner required skills guide, but I have that in the office. I will try to get it on the CGKA forum tomorrow. I think, being a totally retarded kiteboarding n00b makes me uniquely qualified to speak on a subject.
BTW, I will hit you up for a free upwind with the board body drag lesson next time I am in HR.
Your commitment to the affairs of kiting community is amazing.
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just wear sunscreen |
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