For Sale Sticky for Newbies

forrest · Thu Jul 17, 08 9:05 am **For Sale Sticky for Newbies**

We need some guidelines for newbies buying used gear. It can be a short post, set as a sticky in the For Sale Section

Subject: Beginners Read this First!
1) Do not purchase gear older than 2006. Especially Kites as their is a high level of danger for a beginner.
2) When looking for a used kite, try to purchase an SLE/Bow Kite. Due to it's depowering capabilities, it will shorten your learning curve and be much more forgiving.

Mark · Thu Jul 17, 08 9:12 am

3) Take a LESSON. It will shorten your learning curve and be safer for you and us.

tinyE · Since 21 Jan 2006 2004 Posts not really an XTreme Poster

4) the best deal isn't always the best deal...

Bettyboarder · Thu Jul 17, 08 9:28 am

This sport isn't cheap, plan on spending about $3,000 to get into it.... don't buy cheap old kites they are not safe for you or for us

jack · Since 12 Mar 2006 215 Posts Stoked

$400 on an original caution 4 line kite with flames and $150 on an rrd asymmetrical board did me just fine, did not hurt myself or anyone else. no lessons either.... aren't we getting a bit preachy when it comes to telling newbs what to do and how to do it?

blowhard · Since 26 Dec 2005 2027 Posts Windward

I don't know about that ,
I see girls and guys learning on old c kites all the time
just about everybody that kites in Flo is a former or current c kite rider (older than 2006)
I see rippers and danglers riding both types
old and new
almost all the rippers are on older style kites.

I would recommend lessons.

Some 2000-2001 kites were pretty bad but
I got by on them and had a lot fun
most old shit seems pretty bad once you have flown new stuff
but if you are new and don't know any better.

Most begginers have a lot of trouble with the higher aspect type kites that oversheet easily in light wind ,,
as they fall backwards they pull in on the bar Rolling Eyes

a couple old Fuels, a crappy board and an used wetsuit
maybe $750.00 Razz

you'll never know the diff Wink

Wind Slither · Since 04 Mar 2005 2624 Posts The 503 METAL

I think you guys are really carried away with the new kite/SLE thing.

Thinking all the way back to my AR5s - they just weren't that bad. and that's an 01 kite! My 05 Torches with 5th line would be great kites to learn on.

Not only do I think the older kites weren't that "dangerous" but I also don't think the new kites are all that safe. I've been hoisted and yarded by my Rev's as hard as I ever have.....even by my first 2-line AR3.5.

Folks that don't have 3k to spend still have an entry point into this sport. Buyer's should beware of older gear from the standpoint of wear and tear leading to failure but I don't think a newbie has to spend 1500 on a kite he knows is going to take a beating while learning.

My 2. Thumb's Up

Bettyboarder · Thu Jul 17, 08 9:50 am

I guess I should say the $3,000 I was thinking was including lessons and used gear. Lessons aren't cheap

blowhard · Since 26 Dec 2005 2027 Posts Windward

AR 5"s rocked

Ya I don't remember my old kites having enough power to
pull my pigtail off

like on my 5.0 Roo in a loop
the "depower" kites

pdxmonkeyboy · Thu Jul 17, 08 10:20 am

Sure, there are some old kites that are decent and there are some that are absolutely horrific. It would be impossible to list all the old decent kites and the old kites to be avoided. Sure, you CAN learn on anything. I learned on 02 fuels and had a love hate relationship with them. Do I want people buying old C kites and showing up at crowded launches trying to learn to kite--absolutely not.

I think what Forest is trying to get at is that in general, newer kites and bow/SLE kites are much much safer than older kites and C kites. There really isn't much room for debate there.

As experienced kiters living in an area with extremely crowded launches and ever increasing pressure for access, I think it is our responsibility to have some kind of "so you want to learn to kite" sticky in addition to a sticky in the classifieds about what to look for in used gear. Both of these should be instructional and cautionary.

hamlindp · Thu Jul 17, 08 10:53 am

I agree with pdxmonkeyboy, foils are not good kites to learn on, just excellent for veterans who love hangtime.

Wind Slither · Since 04 Mar 2005 2624 Posts The 503 METAL

pdxmonkeyboy · Thu Jul 17, 08 11:49 am

OK. Your right, there is no difference between the two. Nobody agrees that the sport is now safer due to the advancement of SLE style kites.

tinyE · Since 21 Jan 2006 2004 Posts not really an XTreme Poster

pdxmonkeyboy · Thu Jul 17, 08 11:50 am

hamlindp · Thu Jul 17, 08 12:24 pm

True dat!

manplesvanuatu · Since 17 Jul 2008 15 Posts

I am a forum user from the SF bay area.
I think Forrest and I opened a can of worms. a week ago I posted a similar post on craigslist around my area. I got a few good emails (I did not write a post for that) but one of them was a flaming one. The person called me a ass$#%^ and a d#%k I think that was a good compliment from that person ( i enjoyed his message). I guess he lost a sale on a pice of crap because of me:-)
My point was that I don't understand why some people want to unload some really old technology (sometime unsafe) for a mere few bucks...at the expense of a newbie.

I can understand some points from a few replies stating that you can learn from those old equipments...sure I concur...then can you say? get a piece of plywood, cut in an elongated rectangle, throw in the surf and if you try hard enough..you'll eventually stand up on it and surf the waves....BUT why? when you can buy something that is well designed (a real surf board) so you can learn and progress quickly! At the same time safe for you and safe for everyone. You hear launch area getting closed because of some accidents..do you want that?

You can go but the new KITEBOARDER magazine (i am not trying to sell!) and they have an article on how to buy stuff..The author speaks of the same. gear has changed drastically the past 2 years since 2006. when all manufactures finally dialed the idea to nake good kites...prior to that it was hit and miss. Buying a new kite is much more sound. With the hype of the bow kites..I do concur it is a marketing thing...but you know what it does works in many ways..it depowers much better than c-kite..duh...look at the footprint and the theory of the design on paper...and it has a chance to relaunch even though you have the thing directly downwind...would you have to swim sideways to the C-kite to relaunch it? just look at the logic of the design (?)...and bottom line is that you just learn faster...and go through less frustration...(hey unless you are the type that does not mind to take longer to learn things..(in that case be my guest)

For those who wants to sell C-kites ( not to mention REALLY old unsafe C-kites) one thing.. JUST DON't say it's perfect for beginners. I don't care what your opinion is..the matter of fact IT IS NOT! If you still want to sell the older c-kites...you advertise it cheap enough...well they have an old saying.."you got what you paid for" then it's fair game..buyer's responsibility

It works for certain people but not for everyone. Lou Waiman was using the old kite with 2 lines and was smooth like hell on water...would you say that kite is perfect for beginner too?? I DON:T THINK SO! Hey he learned on it and mastered it...does it mean every one is capable of? Mostly NOT..l
let the newbies use something that is foolproof and easier to learn on.

So without being what Jack said "being preachy" it is all about common sense..help people get into the sport safely..not about unloading your old stuff unless someone that knows how to use them and appreciate those older kites...life is too short..live honorably...i think it is just uncool to unload the old stuff to newbies and say "IT"S THE PERFECT STARTER KIT"...regardless of which latest brand it is.there is no such thing as the "perfect"

my 2 cents..

ps I like one of the reply which said: "a good deal is not always a good deal"