Ancient buried treasure in Nichols basin?

Nak · Tue May 08, 12 8:40 pm

scooter,

You've already admitted you don't represent the public, just the people who are fighting with you. So give up on "we the public". You're a few kayakers and SUPers. Nothing wrong with you being that at all, why do you keep trying to hide that? You know what's that called? Oops, I can't call you that.

if you truly "represented the public", you wouldn't be so hot to deny the democratic process. Since you won't win in the democratic process arena, you retreat to the courts where even the bad guys can win. Happens all the time, maybe it'll work for you too.

And BTW, you're the one who "made it personal" when you "deceived" everyone here.

To everyone else, I'd argue the facts, but of course scooter almost never gives one. When he does they're dispatched with ease. I guess I see why he felt that full disclosure wasn't appropriate. I've PMd him to let him know what I think of individuals like him. That's not really the thing to have on a public forum.

T plant · Since 13 Apr 2012 14 Posts Hillsboro

The true hypocrite is the one who ceases to perceive his deception, the one who lies with sincerity. ~André Gide

Derek,
One of these days when you are not intoxicated with your self-righteous lies, go back through your posts, consider your actual lifestyle and if you are honest with yourself you will have no choice but to be ashamed.

scooter · Since 23 Apr 2005 99 Posts hood River

What full disclosure. What deception?

We "are" the public when it comes to the use of the basin. It is public. You want to exclude the public for your little ride.

I will give you very little in terms of facts or details of our arguments other than what is already in the public record. We are not doing your homework for you. We have participated in the this process democratically and actually won. Naito has dropped both the city and Army corps apps. They say they will reapply but I doubt that. If needs be we will use the courts to protect what is ours. The privatization of public waters will not happen without a fight.

You do not know anything about us. You can have your opinons on the vast conspiracy theory but they are just that, theories. Feel free to sit down with Liz and she can discuss some of the Salmon issues with you if you like but we will not be discussing them on this forum in detail. Again, do your own homework.

I take exception to you calling me a deceiver and a liar. If i have misspoken due to the frequency and vast range of different opinions, arguments and positions here my apologize but I have not intentionally deceived or mislead anyone. I don't claim to be anything other than a citizen of Hood River who does not want to see a public river privatized by a Portland developer.

Think what you will but there are many people in this town who actually live here who do not want an amusement park in their river. The more they learn the less they support it.

T-bird..what deception? What lies.

Derek

Inept_Fun · Since 14 Apr 2005 1417 Posts Hood River XTreme Poster

Scooter, the fact that you are calling it "an amusement park ride" shows just how uneducated you really are. Why do you keep telling us to check the facts when you obviously havent done so yourself? You do realize Nak is an ENVIRONMENTALIST right?? And your trying to argue with him about the ENVIRONMENT. Just so you know these "amusement park rides" are going to be in the 2020 olympics most likely... But you wouldnt want to see a local kid go to the olympics of even give a shit about something like that would you?

BTW I dont know what public you have been talking to or trying to represent but everyone I know who doesnt kite has been pretty keen on the idea and think its pretty rad. But I doubt you get out with the under 50 crowd much...

pajsan1 · Since 09 May 2012 3 Posts Kook

Nak and Forest ! I'm in Europe working this summer but when I come back where I live with my family and raise my son (Hood River) I would be very happy to offer you a pint of brew (your choice of course) at a local place. The work you guys put in are very appreciated. Thank you so much

kitedreamer · Since 09 May 2012 2 Posts Mosier New Member

Given the tone of some of the comments on this issue I hope no one is surprised that Derek has been one of the few folks willing to publicly come on here and debate the issue. I do think its fair to ask for a explanation of what behind the opposition to the project and as a longtime kiter I'll try to explain why I'm working with Derek and others to stop the project and why I think it would set a really bad precedent that would end up working against the public access principles that I think is are really important for kiters in the long-term.

1) Public Access. When I worked with a number of CGKA members to stop the City of Mosier from banning kiting at Rock Creek a year or so ago my #1 argument to Mosier City Councilors was that the beach should be open for all of the public to use including kiters. If kiters support an exclusive lease of the boat basin that locks out all other users during key summertime hours when the use is highest then we'll have greatly limited our credibility in making the "public access for all" argument the next time someone tries to ban kiting. Today's "them" is tomorrow's "us."

2) The area is federally listed as "critical habitat" for 11 runs of threatened salmon. The boat basin is considered "off channel" habitat which is a rare habitat in the Columbia River Basin that provides a refuge for fish from faster moving Columbia. It is not a man-made basin, but if you look at historic aerial photos you can see the historic path of the Hood River runs right through where the boat basin is today.
I hope for folks that get as many benefits from the Columbia as we do we that there's at least some interest in considering the impact that the cable park could cause rather than dismissing it outright. The cable park would install at least 280- 300 pound concrete anchors on the river bottom, build over 10,000 square feet of new docks/walkways covering basin waters, and bring a very significant increase in the intensity of use the basin now gets.

The developer, however, has not even conducted a basic salmon presence or absence survey there. I totally agree with earlier commenters said there should be a study of how the cable park would impact salmon and if it is a neutral study that comes out saying the cable park helps salmon then I'd be happy to grab the first tow around the cable park. The developer, however, has only paid for a cursory report that concluded salmon were not likely in the basin and then generally dismissed potential impacts to them as a result. But if you want to check this claim for yourself head on down there at dawn or dusk and check out all the fish jumping in the southern end of the boat basin. If you really want to know they're salmon bring a fishing pole because the reports are that if you're good at fishing it doesn't take long to land a young hungry salmon.

While a credible study should fully evaluate what the cable park would mean for salmon I have at least 3 major concerns:

1) over 10,000 square feet of new docks and walkways would create major new habitat for bass and other non-native species that eat a hell of a lot salmon. Docks are well known to increase non-native fish populations that harm salmon. Exactly how much harm to salmon is an issue for a comprehensive study that has not been prepared but should be;

2) if you've ever watched salmon underwater you know they would be pretty scared of fast moving objects moving over their heads (like a wakeboard). They flea quickly from any disturbance and this burns their energy reserves. If you're going to have a high activity cable park in the basin it will loose the habitat values it has now for salmon. The basin is far from pristine, but few places in the Columbia are.

Finally, the Naito on shore property and the soil just below the waterline continue to have signification toxic contamination. The cleanup on site removed less than 2 feet of the top soil and so much toxic contamination remains at the site that the property is under the continued authority of the DEQ hazardous waste program. There has been no public discussion of how the cable park construction and operation would kick up toxics in the soil and river bottom that continue to be present from decades of boat work there.

While I won't have time to stay very active in this on-line conversation I think it is was fair to ask for a detailed explanation about what's behind the opposition to the cable park. I've had a number of talks with friends on both sides of the cable park issue and they've generally been friendly and respectful. I'm sure some folks will say this is all a bunch BS and that's fine, but at some point I hope the tone of the debate on this blog better reflects that we're all kiting on the same waters.

PS- I am pretty excited about the potential buried treasure and appreciate the levity.

Brent Foster

forrest · Wed May 09, 12 4:05 pm

Thanks for finally getting on here Brent, brave man. Biology is biology. Laws and Laws. I think we all understand that. I wanted to address a portion of what you wrote:

Nak · Wed May 09, 12 4:56 pm

Hi Brent, and thanks for posting!

First off, I want to address your comment:

Trent · Since 10 May 2012 76 Posts Hood River

OK, so now you're threatening the opposition with violence? Really? You are hurting your cause more than you know. People from the public at large are reading this forum to learn more about the cable park proposal. You'd do well to represent your group of supporters with a little more maturity and professionalism.

jperry · Since 07 Nov 2008 190 Posts Stoked

Lol. You know they should hang down there EVEY DAY... haha there is the real story. Last year the only time i really saw (some) kayakers was on no wind days and they always went out into the river.

Except on weekends.

just because there is a cable does not mean there wont be room?

Supers and kayakers well i hate to brake it to you but there are many other places to go play.

can we settle this with a game of skate? Or kite. Boulder golf? 5k? rugby? soccer? MMA???

alleycat · Since 29 Jun 2006 176 Posts Portland Stoked

As a tourist I am excited about the proposed cable park. I have spent many nights in the local hotels, been to pretty much all the pubs for after session beers and grub, enjoyed coffee downtown and ate a million tacos. I have both SUPs and kayaks...I wouldn't make the journey to SUP in the basin...I mean how great would that be? The paddleboarder gets listen to the highway noise and as posted earlier you get a great view of WindWing World Headquarters.

The cable park would add to the all the tourist attractions that the Hood has to offer. Hood River's economy (my opinion) is supported by tourism. The park will keep people in town during now wind days and if/when tips and tricks lessons are offered.

I feel that the people that have a issue with the park are just part of the change is bad crowd.

Claire · Since 27 Mar 2010 9 Posts Hood River Kook

It think it would be wise to remember that kiters are not the only ones with interest in a cable park; we just seem to be the loudest, rowdiest community members with an awesome forum on which we can say ANYTHING.

Let's try to keep it relevant and clean. That being said, I think the basin would be an excellent location for a ThunderDome! Two men enter, one man leaves!

wakeup · Since 11 Sep 2005 328 Posts always Obsessed

Concerning the docks and walkways:

There has been considerable discussion of the developer using transparent panels of different opacities for the docks and walkways that are in the water.
this would considerably cut down on the shadow effect the predatory fish use to their advantage to almost zero.

I believe the developer is well aware of this issue and willing to work towards a solution.
I don't think that the Naito Group wants to harm any type of species or habitat.

consumer · Since 28 Nov 2010 406 Posts banned Obsessed

sounds like this conflict has the capacity to evolve into an amalgamated party where solutions to concerns of the opposed are included in the project.

Theoretically, scooter, brent and all those opposed: Would you be at least more inclined to support the proposal if your fears and concerns were heard and quelled?

Bettyboarder · Thu May 10, 12 1:00 pm

I think it's so interesting that people are fighting to SUP/Kayak/Swim in that basin. It's so gross and such an eye sore. Theres the marina, the hook, the white salmon river, the hood river that are all so much better to SUP in.

jblum · Since 13 Jul 2008 306 Posts The Gorge Obsessed

Blazeheliski · Since 30 Mar 2011 659 Posts Mosier Addicted

Unless the evironmental groups blocking this have the money, time, resources and manpower to turn the basin into a park like setting improving the habitat for wildlife within the next couple of years - blocking this will just leave it a crap hole until light industrial comes along and turns it all into a parking lot. I am sure that asphalt rain run off will be much better for the salmon than a cable park with trees and landscaping............not.