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forrest

Since 21 Jun 2005
4330 Posts
Hood River
Hick
CGKA Member
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Tue May 08, 12 12:53 am |
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Gotta wonder how much impact the fish habitat might have suffered from the smorgasbord of you guys tromping around down there trying to take pictures, capture video, slap your paddles around, roaming around in boats with your "Friends". I saw the video you have, and the armature taking the video speculates that it's salmon, so you're exaggerating inconclusive evidence, which means you're full of shit.
How about you do something useful for the local environment and get the Lions Club's Fourth of July explosion of glue and cardboard banned cause fuck, there is a lot of cardboard and gun powder balls all over the waterfront still, that will never be cleaned up, even after several rounds of spring run off. Not to mention the impact to the economy of closing the Sandbar on a busy Summer day.
For that matter, I think we should ban SUPing and Kayaking, cause that certainly has more impact than six wakeboards going around on a set course in flat water. It could be argued SUP boards are large enough to harbor predatory fish, but I won't because I live in REALITY, not FANTASY.
Facts will set you free... Myths will make you look like fools...
scooter wrote: | No capturing. Just pics. That was enough to get ODFW to get involved.
I don't think any reasonable person would equate the use of a kayak to the fast moving and constant wakboarding a cable park would bring.
Good luck with that argument.
Derek |
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scooter
Since 23 Apr 2005
99 Posts
hood River
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Tue May 08, 12 6:24 am |
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Forrest,
No Scooter ride for you!!
If a significant study is done I'm confident the feds are going to laugh at the application to build in the basin. If they decide that the loss of juvenile salmon habitat is ok than you will probably get your cable park but as of now the Army corps app for the cable park has been pulled.
Don't forget that you are asking the public to give up a nice piece of water that will one day be surrounded on the south and west banks by developments. I know it doesn't look like much to those of you who prefer buildings to cable parks but there are still plenty of folks in town who like having a small bay to play in. I can't wait to paddle around in the bay when the south end has a little restaurant, deck, and lawn to land on.
The cable park apps have already been bifurcated because they don't want the cable park to sink the hotel. They will get their hotel and just might stop there.
Good luck with your plans.
Derek
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Hein
Since 08 Mar 2005
1314 Posts
Possessed
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Tue May 08, 12 6:57 am |
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It appears to me that anyone with an agenda can invoke a federal regulatory agency to do their bidding. There is only on way to bring decisions back to the local level.
less (smaller) Federal Government.
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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
4304 Posts
Camas
Site Lackey
CGKA Member
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Tue May 08, 12 6:57 am |
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Actually guys, scooter and the Friends have made a great point here, just not the point they think they have. Apparently, they don't know much about salmon in the Columbia River.
Why do the dams release so much water when salmon smolt are migrating to the ocean? Because they need the fast water to protect them from predator species, many of which are non-native. Salmon smolt are easy prey in slow moving water.
So, let's assume scooter and the friends are right; salmon smolt are entering the man made Nichols Basin. If that is so, I absolutely gauruntee you that predator species are entering as well. Apparently what we--man--have done by creating Nichols Basin is to create an environment that traps salmon smolt as easy targets for non-native predators. We have upset the natural balance and are further eroding a precious natural resource--endangered native salmon! This must not be allowed to continue.
What are we to do? I mean, to protect salmon we just blew up a dam, right? We control the flow of water through the Columbia River dams at great expense to protect salmon from predators. Something has to be done at the Nichols Basin as well. What though? Well, it's pretty obvious. Only a complete moron would mistake Nichols Basin as natural Salmon habitat. Instead, it is a dangerous trap created by man to lure young salmon to their death. Anyone with even a shred of intelligence can see that. The only solution is to block off Nichols Basin so that young salmon can not enter it.
How best to achieve this goal? Again, the answer is obvious, easy, and relatively inexpensive. (Compared to blowing up dams.) A dike across the North end of the basin MUST be built to protect our native salmon runs. Since the water is for the most part non-flowing, and the dike need not be load supporting, even a dike constructed of large gravel would probably be sufficient? What a great win-win solution! The public would even gain pedestrian access to the sand bar from the event site. Salmon win, the public wins. Of course, even the mentally challenged would have to agree that Nichols Basin would no longer be considered a "Navigable waterway". Well, man has to give up a little to insure the survival of endangered species.
I think we have to thank "The Friends Of The Hood River Waterfront" for pointing out this serious threat to salmon smolt. I am sure they will join us in petitioning the appropriate federal agencies to block off Nichols Basin. They claim to be very concerned about native fish habitat, so obviously they will join us in this effort. I mean, only a lying, selfish, greedy, conniving, SOB would claim to love nature and then not help us to eliminate this threat, right?
We need to get this done. Seriously. Far more has been done to protect our salmon runs; blocking the basin is small potatoes. Naito has even stepped up to provide aeration to the basin that will benefit fish and wildlife once the basin is blocked--at absolutely no cost to the taxpayers! Another win-win for the environment and the public.
How about it scooter? You guys pointed out the threat; you claim to be friends to nature. Will you step up and help us eliminate this threat? Time for everyone--including yourselves--to see what kind of people you really are. But please, if you won't help, I never, ever, want to hear anything about helping nature from you again. I hope you do help us, I want to believe that you guys are really good folks that just didn't see eye-to-eye with us on one issue. You talk the talk, do you walk the walk?
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scooter
Since 23 Apr 2005
99 Posts
hood River
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Tue May 08, 12 7:12 am |
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I love it!! Keep up with your arguments and we will see how far you get.
The ODWF are the kind of "morons" who think that the basin is prime juvenile salmon habitat. I'm confident that with more study we will learn the true importance of the basin for salmon.
All the ad hominem attacks are fun but in actuality they are getting you nowhere with those in the public who come here to read these threads. Good luck with that as well.
The basin is a fantastic piece of water that most cities would kill to have. The more the public learns about a cable park the more they seem to be opposing it. If all the agencies involved pass the apps then you will get your cable park. Otherwise, we will keep what is rightfully public waters for the use of the entire public.
Have a good one!!
Derek
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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
4304 Posts
Camas
Site Lackey
CGKA Member
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Tue May 08, 12 7:20 am |
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First step: if you fish, fish for walleye, bass or other predator fish in the basin. Video opening up the stomach, freeze the salmon smolt contents. we'll send the evidence to ODFW for analysis. Once we have proof of salmon predation in the basin the Feds will almost certainly have to block off the basin.
Also, keep an eye on the basin for any unscrupulous types who might try to fish out the basin of predator fish. Such action would only temporarily mitigate the problem, but there might be greedy SOBs who would do it for their own selfish reasons. lets catch these salmon/nature hating bastards in the act and identify them to the public.
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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
4304 Posts
Camas
Site Lackey
CGKA Member
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Tue May 08, 12 7:38 am |
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scooter wrote: |
The ODWF are the kind of "morons" who think that the basin is prime juvenile salmon habitat. I'm confident that with more study we will learn the true importance of the basin for salmon. |
Did you even bother to Google salmon, slow water and predation by non-native species? Obviously not. It takes time to read and understand all of the information available. The timing of your post shows you didn't even bother to look at the issue. Try it. Why do you think the dams release so much water when the salmon smolt are migrating? Did you know it's mandated for the protection of the salmon? What chance do you think a salmon smolt has against a bass in the basin? Do you even care enough to research the issue? Or do you just want to use salmon as your leverage, not caring about them at all?
scooter wrote: |
All the ad hominem attacks are fun but in actuality they are getting you nowhere with those in the public who come here to read these threads. Good luck with that as well. |
I'm sorry you thought my post was an attack scooter, it was not. If you read it again, you'll notice that I stated my belief that you would help us with this issue. I'm a big supporter of environmental issues, as my personal and posting history clearly show. You stated that you wanted to help the environment, I took you at your word.
Yes, I believe the basin is attractive to juvenile salmon. I also believe it's fairly obvious that it is attractive to non-native predators as well. Nichols Basin is a man made salmon death pit. We built it. We introduced non-native predator fish. Are you so entrenched in your position that you can't look at both sides of the issue? Seriously scooter, I would really like to believe you care.
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Diggy

Since 25 Nov 2006
342 Posts
Gorge to Coast
Obsessed
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Tue May 08, 12 7:59 am |
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Quote: | Don't forget that you are asking the public to give up a nice piece of water that will one day be surrounded on the south and west banks by developments. I know it doesn't look like much to those of you who prefer buildings to cable parks but there are still plenty of folks in town who like having a small bay to play in. I can't wait to paddle around in the bay when the south end has a little restaurant, deck, and lawn to land on. |
Perhaps Scooter has an ulterior motive and plan for the use of that little man made basin.
_________________ www.cautionkites.com
IKO Kiteboarding Instructor
http://www.ikointl.com/water.php |
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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
4304 Posts
Camas
Site Lackey
CGKA Member
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Tue May 08, 12 8:04 am |
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Here's a very small start for those interested in the dynamics of salmon predation in the Columbia. Sorry it's a pic instead of cut & paste, the document is copy protected. I'll explain further in the next post.
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Salmon Predation (Small).jpg |
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Inept_Fun

Since 14 Apr 2005
1417 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster
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Tue May 08, 12 8:07 am |
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Scooter your literally a joke of a human being. Good luck with you summer...
Oh yeah looks like the city voted for the cable park 4 - 1.
Looks like your really helping out with what the people in this town want. Which is a cable park.
_________________ I heart dangling |
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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
4304 Posts
Camas
Site Lackey
CGKA Member
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Tue May 08, 12 8:15 am |
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Basically, here's the deal: Slower water, higher temperatures, and less oxygen all tip the balance in the favor if the predator fish. Conditions like those in Nichols Basin. Combine that with the fact that basin has one small inlet/outlet, and the salmon are effectively trapped for the predators. This is not a natural situation, it is one of man's making. Migrating salmon, including threatened and endangered runs, are lured in to the basin because of a variety of reasons. Once there, they become easy prey for non-native predator fish.
I will admit that my interest in this subject was initially kindled by support for a project that I believe in. However, as an environmentalist, I can not ignore the facts that have been brought to light. We have done so much more than this to protect the salmon. Blocking the basin will help protect runs that might otherwise become extinct. Additionally, the net result to the public will be positive. The basin will still be there. All recreational opportunities will still exist. It will still support fish and wildlife. The ONLY real effect will be that it will no longer be possible to suggest that it is a navigable waterway. That and it will no longer be a salmon kill zone.
Hopefully the cable park can be built soon as that will at least increase the oxygen content of the water. That will help the salmon a bit prior to the sealing of the basin. Right now they're dealing with a perfect storm of three risk factors: higher temperature, slower water flow and lower oxygen count. Raising the oxygen level would at least eliminate one of the three risk factors.
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Gman

Since 11 Feb 2006
4911 Posts
Portland
Unstrapped
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Tue May 08, 12 10:10 am |
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The marina boat basin is loaded with smolt - the ones i talked too don't seem to mind the 300 boats moving in and out - the bass are also pretty fat
_________________ Go Deep!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eu2pBpQolKE |
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forrest

Since 21 Jun 2005
4330 Posts
Hood River
Hick
CGKA Member
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Tue May 08, 12 10:16 am |
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Nak, you can't box with a glacier. Scooter obviously will not be swayed by fact.
Ian, the 4-1 vote was for the buildings, the Cable Park will go through an additional process. The opposition was denied the chance to submit additional testimony last night.
Essentially their strategy is to bog the process down as much as possible. They'll use reams of testimony resembling telephone books, CDROMs of pictures and videos they claim is evidence, and they will absolutely REFUSE to listen. Their strategy actually involves NOT listening.
If YOU want a cable park, YOU need to testify, YOU need to write letters to the news paper, YOU need to get involved. That's right, YOU have to do something.
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scooter
Since 23 Apr 2005
99 Posts
hood River
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Tue May 08, 12 10:40 am |
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Nak wrote: | Basically, here's the deal: Slower water, higher temperatures, and less oxygen all tip the balance in the favor if the predator fish. Conditions like those in Nichols Basin. Combine that with the fact that basin has one small inlet/outlet, and the salmon are effectively trapped for the predators. This is not a natural situation, it is one of man's making. Migrating salmon, including threatened and endangered runs, are lured in to the basin because of a variety of reasons. Once there, they become easy prey for non-native predator fish.
I will admit that my interest in this subject was initially kindled by support for a project that I believe in. However, as an environmentalist, I can not ignore the facts that have been brought to light. We have done so much more than this to protect the salmon. Blocking the basin will help protect runs that might otherwise become extinct. Additionally, the net result to the public will be positive. The basin will still be there. All recreational opportunities will still exist. It will still support fish and wildlife. The ONLY real effect will be that it will no longer be possible to suggest that it is a navigable waterway. That and it will no longer be a salmon kill zone.
Hopefully the cable park can be built soon as that will at least increase the oxygen content of the water. That will help the salmon a bit prior to the sealing of the basin. Right now they're dealing with a perfect storm of three risk factors: higher temperature, slower water flow and lower oxygen count. Raising the oxygen level would at least eliminate one of the three risk factors. |
Great research. however I will take my science from the fish biologists who have already chimed in and noted that a comprehensive study need to be done.
After that we can discuss the merits of the study. As of now there is no study but only a recommendation for one from the ODFW.
Let's see what they have to say.
Have a great week,
Derek
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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
4304 Posts
Camas
Site Lackey
CGKA Member
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Tue May 08, 12 11:08 am |
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scooter wrote: |
Great research. however I will take my science from the fish biologists who have already chimed in and noted that a comprehensive study need to be done. | Could you post the name & contact information for those biologists that you mention? I'd be extremely interested in talking to them.
scooter wrote: | As of now there is no study but only a recommendation for one from the ODFW. | Also, could you please post the reference information for that ODFW recommendation?
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forrest

Since 21 Jun 2005
4330 Posts
Hood River
Hick
CGKA Member
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Tue May 08, 12 11:27 am |
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Just so everyone knows, the opposition doesn't care what the study's findings are.
They are only interested in bogging down the process, and driving up costs as much as they can.
Scooter, your antagonizing isn't appreciated.
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Sella

Since 21 Apr 2007
1794 Posts
Doin' The Dalles
FLY'IN HIGH PIE GUY
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Tue May 08, 12 11:48 am |
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Forrest wrote: | If YOU want a cable park, YOU need to testify, YOU need to write letters to the news paper, YOU need to get involved. That's right, YOU have to do something. |
The Chair (Laurie Stephens) and city attorney (Dan Kearns) did a great job last night of keeping the meeting on point, remaining unbiased while asking many questions to ensure the correct processes are being followed. The application for the buildings and cable park are very unique and complex and it seems the buildings are in good position for approval but the cable park is another level. Get involved, please attend meetings and send letters instead of posting up bs that means nothing in the scope of the bigger picture.
Scooter is a part time Kayak Shed employee who has personally stated in the past he thought the boat basin would be the perfect setting for a cable park when he first moved to HR to work in the kiting industry, which seems didn't work out well for him. Maybe he has an ax to grind but he obviously likes the attention so quit feeding his self-importance because you're debating a low level fringe group errand boy.
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