Kitemare Sherman Island

eric · Since 13 Jan 2006 1872 Posts XTreme Poster

I am 100% with Spike. Not only do I REFUSE to teach friends with a board leash, starting this past spring I WILL NOT launch anyone who is attached to a board leash. If they want to put it on AFTER I launch them that's up to them.

I have made a couple of kiters grouchy with my no leash policy, but that's how I roll.

Eric

Sid · Since 31 Mar 2008 83 Posts Right behind you.

That sucks.

The day I got rid of my leash was the day I learned to body drag proper. I must have lost my board a dozen times that day but I was so stoked I could just drag back to it I wondered why I spent months tripping over that stupid thing in the first place.

In hindsight, I wonder if beginners should even get on a board if they can't body drag upwind?

No to leashes.

bulae99 · Since 12 Jul 2006 1692 Posts XTreme Poster

"When the paramedics rolled him onto the backboard I retrieve his cut up suit and harness and I notice immediately that the CL was still partially attached to the hook. There was also some webbing from a very long board leash that was tangled around the CL area, which makes me believe that the CL may not have fully released because it got got jammed up on the webbing. This is a speculation on my part, but all of the evidence does support this as the possible cause of why he was still attached. I brought it to the attention of Nat with Edge and several others that were present."

OK, there is tons of missing information about what caused this terrible incident to happen. I know that leashes offer some pro's and con's and this is without a doubt a con, but what decision process led up to this nearly fatal incident.

Did this guy know is safety systems?

If a chicken loop doesn't work and you are still attached to kite what do you do?

Do we know if the guy was on a naish kite? What options did he have leading up to coming onto the beach with kite leash wrapped around CL? Or, was the leash wrapped at all prior to him coming onto the beach and losing control?

Did he pull on the bar as a reaction to the CL not releasing in an attempt to control his fully powered kite?

I think the thing to do hear is not blame it on leashes, or anything unless you know for certain what it is that caused this event to occur. I'm not promoting leashes, but I am wondering if it is presumptive to assume that the leash was the the main error here.

There just isn't enough information to do this justice and speculation is just not the right answer.

Here is what I will take away from this post:

1. Know your safety systems. All of them, and if you don't then figure them out. I lifeguarded at the naval base in SD and saw how tough it was for trainee's to release from their ejection seats when under water and it never failed that somebody would not be able to do this. These were tough, young, Navy, Marine men and women getting trained for water rescue and every single guy and gal had to be trained on how to deal with the stress being dropped into the water and turned upside down in full pilot dress. Tough and very scary!!
Practice your f@$#% safety systems.
2. Don't count on 1 stand alone system to release you from the kite. You should have several options and know how they work.
3. Practice flagging your kite so you know what happens when you do it. 2 o shit loops, 2 front lines, and below the bar safety, hand walk up the lines, or start cutting with your knife!!!!!!
4. Wear a helmet, impact vest, and a pfd.
5. practice a preflight checklist.

My preflight consists of:

1. check my leash and release it and reload.
2. check my chicken loop and release it and reload.
3. feel my knife and know where it is.
4. check my harness release(mission waist release)
5. Walk my lines
6. Double check my kite selection. I ask Eric if he's around, or somebody I know who know's the wind.

7. I always pray before I go out. "God please watch me and make sure I don't get hurt."

As I watch people kite at the spit and where ever else I go I always see unsafe things happen. I notice people flying their kite at noon. I see guys doing big ass jumps right in front of the sand bar. I see, and you see this shit too. When it's close to me and I can make a difference by saying something I do it. I've received shit from this forum for this and it never fails to amaze me that people don't go out of their way to at least try to tell folks what it is they are doing that is "risky."

The other thing that I would like to sum up with is if you see some unsafe shit going down on the beach then do something! Go over and say, "Man flying your kite at noon above the rocks is very risky for you and those you will hit if you get launched."

I hope this guy is OK. My thoughts and prayers are with him and his family.

pdxmonkeyboy · Sun Aug 10, 08 9:51 am

Some people just never fucking learn no matter how many people tell them or no matter what they read.

BOARD LEASHES ARE DANGEROUS!!! There is no benefit to the board leash except possibly preventing monetary loss. IKO =has removed board leashes from there curriculum. almost everyone on here will tell you to loose them. There are pictures all over the web from people getting there heads cut open. And this latest debacle, the guys leash wrapped around his CL to the extent that he was permenantly connected to the kite. Not to mention that when he was lofter, his board became a sharp dangerous projectile that missed some kids playing in the water by only a couple feet.

Stop trying to defend your leash and admit it, leashes are DANGEROUS and are only a crutch that prevents you from learning necessary body dragging skills.

I love the "pros and cons". OK, so weigh them out then. The pro's outweigh the cons? I don't think so. Lets see, i could loose my board or i could smash my head open or severely injure a bystander. ...hmm, i would hate to loose me board.

Leashes are perfectly fine until the shit hits the fan, and thats when things can go horrible wrong. Seeing how NOBODY plans to enter a kitemare and there are many things OUT OF YOUR CONTROL when you do...why take the risk?

Spike · Since 13 May 2007 1414 Posts Alameda Spelling Expert

bulae99 · Since 12 Jul 2006 1692 Posts XTreme Poster

If you read the post there is a set of decisions that I was attempting to analyze. Leashes are bad. Don't use leashes.

Kite leashes are good, but only if they work.

I think that there are some decisions all begs. make as they approach the beach that put them at risk.

The value of looking for a single cause is not based in the facts because we don't have them for this incident.

Look at the incident that happened in Corpus. The kite leash was an above the bar T2..right? When they got to the guy it was unclear what had happened, or if he had attached it incorrectly.

I agree with you that board leashes are bad, but making the focus of this post the gear, any of it, is short sighted.

Honestly ask yourself how many times you go through a preflight check of your safety systems? Be honest.

Kodiak · Since 01 Aug 2005 1114 Posts Slidey

Spike, not sure the point of your post? Is there something wrong with saying a prayer before you kite?

Using a leash is very shortsighted and puts your health and other potentially at risk.

Blue · Since 03 Jul 2007 469 Posts I used to be Obsessed

windslayer · Since 30 Apr 2007 153 Posts Stoked

I have kited that down winder with Nat and many others tons of times, and the wind is perfect for that kite to start with, but conditions can change in the 5 mile down wind'r. It can die, or it can pick up. It picked up is what it sounded like, so please dont blame what you dont know of what was at the start of the kite session.

Now to the leash................I most likely will be picked apart for this one, however I will defend it because It was a terrific learning tool. I used the REEL leash. Never a problem.

From every accident that we know that happens with kiting, there is always blame and bad blame. People call them unnecessary names, and always looking to point a finger. Isnt it bad enought that they had issues, now they have to read about the rudness of their peers that have nothing better to do than to feed off of someone elses misforturn!!! Please be easier. there is sooo much equipment out there that is good, great and shitty!!! Kite, boards, ect.

I am glad that there is a forum for us to discuss products and kite stuff. Please keep it more positive.

FlyDunes · Since 09 Oct 2007 1034 Posts Aloha XTreme Poster

Kodiak · Since 01 Aug 2005 1114 Posts Slidey

kyle.vh · Since 11 Jul 2007 713 Posts city of angels Addicted

If you are going to write about or reference your religious beliefs on a public forum that is about another topic, you should be prepared for criticism.
I am tired of ivory tower religious sensitivity that is offended at the slightest remark. We live in a scary time right now when to question or make light of religion is considered deeply disrespectful or unpatriotic. In fact the opposite is true.

Dont believe me?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

Kodiak: think about '99 right now. He wares a leash thinking god protects him (perhaps he does, I can't claim to know for sure). Do you have any advice for him?
Spike may have seemed rude to you (though I and likely many others likely enjoyed the post), but I'm interested to know exactly how you would prefer criticism. I think that if Spike had said: "I find it unlikely that praying will help you with your leash situation", I think he still would have been called out...

FlyDunes · Since 09 Oct 2007 1034 Posts Aloha XTreme Poster

Reaper356 · Since 10 Dec 2006 781 Posts Salem / LC Oregon Opinionated

Time to lock the thread yet?

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6549 Posts Couve / Hood Honored Founder

Maybe instead of locking you guys can just move on. I don't think its cool to turn a thread detailing a serious kite accident into an argument on religion.

Disagreeing on kite safety issues is a very different subject than being intolerant of people's religious views.

Cool weekend with super sweet vibes from KB4C, hope you guys can find plenty of reasons to smile and feel lucky with your life.

So anyway, play nice and play safe!

Kodiak · Since 01 Aug 2005 1114 Posts Slidey

Sorry to Phil on this one. This is my last response to this thread, and I probably shouldn't respond anymore anyway, but I am going to say it anyway.

1. Check my previous posts about using a leash, I think they are crap and dangerous.
2. Bulae doesn't say praying is going to keep him safe for wearing a leash. I actually think he mentioned leashes were bad, but I am not going back to reread this whole post.
3. I don't see the point in belittling others
4. You are just jumping on Bulae because he is an easy target. If you want to jump on him because he spreads bad safety information about kiting great. But otherwise maybe you should jump on everyone that says something like "my thoughts and prayers are with you" for all the other post on NW kite like this one http://www.nwkite.com/forums/t-9013.html&highlight=thoughts+prayers
5. Windslayer, a reel leash will not keep you safe. I learned with a leash a few years ago. It was a real leash. The front of the board augerd into the water and the reel didn't spool fast enough. It still snapped back and me and gave me a 3 inch scar on the back of my leg, through my wetsuit. If it was summer I would have had a much more serious injury. The leash came off that day.

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kyle.vh · Since 11 Jul 2007 713 Posts city of angels Addicted

Even though it seems disingenuous to ask us to be polite and accuse us of religious intolerance in the same breath, since you did ask politely, i will concede though not apologize.
that was my best shot at diplomacy, sorry. Embarassed