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Kite Knifes: Force required to cut line.
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Mark

Since 20 Jun 2005
3678 Posts
I need my fix because I'm a
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PostTue Oct 28, 08 8:41 am     Reply with quote

blowhard wrote:
Mark,
Where do you wear it?

I'm vying for as smooth an clean as possible
I just tucked my seat belt knife under my velcro
harness underneath my spreader


I wear Dakine Nitro shorts. I have the knife in the webbing straps on my right hip. Lays nice and tight to the shorts.

The nice thing about the dive knife sheath is its designed to be hooked on to webbing.

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Pepi

Since 16 Jun 2006
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Pure Stoke Sports
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PostTue Oct 28, 08 10:06 am     Reply with quote

kitezilla wrote:

Mystic makes the knife...I think Pepi stocks it at 2nd Wind

I just posted the results of my year long study of the deterioration of the cutting ability of this knife, under extreme environmental conditions. If you are "geek-tolerant", read all about it here in the last few pages of the thread:

http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2343820&p=556883

I am now doing a study of the Captain Hook style kite knife (Hook Knife.com is the brand) under the same environmental conditions. I will get back to you in a year or so with the results.


Thanks for the shop props, but we were not able to ever get the Mystic knife in stock due to availability and shipping issues with the Mystic importer.

We do, however stock both the Captain Hook knives and the McNett River Guide/Dive Knives that have a flattenned tip and come with a plastic holster sheath.

Thanks
Pepi

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HoodRat

Since 30 Mar 2008
199 Posts

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PostWed Oct 29, 08 11:21 am     Reply with quote

sorry pepi. still not quite what we're looking for.
Lemme know when u got the Dundee or Boon knives in. k thanks
HoodRat wrote:
you call that a knife?

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toddjb

Since 16 Oct 2007
271 Posts
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PostWed Oct 29, 08 1:53 pm    Re: dive knife Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Here is a pic of the dive knife I use. It has a line cutter "hook" as well as a serrated section. It clips into the sheath and can be removed by pressing both "blue" sides of handle at once.

clips to my harness. Decided to carry it when the fishermen strung a net out from Stevenson....

Mark, I like your knife as it looks light (doesn't have the tank banger on the butt end) and it has two release buttons on the sides which would seem to minimize the risk of it coming out accidently.

I also have the same harness as you so if it works for you, it'd probably work for me. I currently have the double blade captain hook knife but it doesn't fit conveniently anywhere on my harness. I can attach the nylon snap sheeth to the straps on the side of my harness, but since it isn't rigid I'm not sure if it would come out easily in a panic situation.

Long story short....what is the brand and model of your knife?

I looked online and couldn't find anything like it.

Thanks!

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Mark

Since 20 Jun 2005
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PostWed Oct 29, 08 4:20 pm     Reply with quote

My knife is a Wenoka Deep See squeeze knife.

Here are a couple of web sites for similar knives:

http://www.thefind.com/sports/browse-deep-see-squeeze-lock-knife

http://www.snorkelcity.com/deseesqlotit.html

Hope that helps.

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Mark

Since 20 Jun 2005
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PostSat Nov 01, 08 12:48 pm     Reply with quote

Here are a couple of pics of my knife setup. The sheath has a nice loop on the backside. I took the straps out and thru then back in. Rebuckled them on the inside. hope this helps

   PB010017.jpg 
   PB010018021.jpg 

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kitezilla

Since 22 Jun 2006
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PostSat Nov 01, 08 3:38 pm     Reply with quote

I worry about the location of the knife itself creating a line-snagging hazard. I looks like the handle of the knife and the bottom of the sheath could both trap a kite line and hold it.

Here is a copy of a post I entered on Kiteforum in the previously noted link to the 12 page thread on kite knives:

“The following 8 pictures display an idea that I have been exploring...that of WHERE to carry the long double bladed Captain Hook style knife. I sewed a "sheath" pocket onto the top of my spreader bar pad. Some of you may like this idea, and make a similar modification to your spreader bar pad...thereby, joining in the experiment.

If this idea is found to have merit, after a period of testing, then, those of us who become advocates of this modification, could contact one of the manufacturers of spreader bar pads, and present our case for the need to have them manufacture such an item. It does not seem to me that this modification would increase the cost of production significantly, and the benefit to the kiting community would be that of giving every kiter, the advantage of carrying the most effective kite line cutting device, in a piece of equipment, that every kiter always has with them.

Note, that I have bent the knife, using the heat of an electric stove burner. This allowed the handle to better conform to the curve of the pad.

The pictures are self-explanatory, but if anyone wants further information about any aspect of this project, just say so, and I will respond to your questions.

The 8 pictures will follow in 3 subsequent posts.”

Here are 2 of the pictures of the modification I made to the spreader bar pad. This sort of non-line snagging, unobtrusive “pocket” might be an answer to where to carry one of the scuba or river knives. The pocket is working out good for me...the knife stays in place, is easily removed, is not noticeable, and does not tend to snag lines.


   1.JPG 
   2.JPG 

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Mark

Since 20 Jun 2005
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PostSat Nov 01, 08 4:01 pm     Reply with quote

Thats another good idea. Not to worried about line snag, as I carry a big knife! Laughing
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SalmonSlayer

Since 27 Nov 2005
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PostSat Nov 01, 08 5:52 pm    Re: dive knife Reply with quote

[quote="toddjb"]
Mark wrote:
....I currently have the double blade captain hook knife but it doesn't fit conveniently anywhere on my harness. I can attach the nylon snap sheeth to the straps on the side of my harness, but since it isn't rigid I'm not sure if it would come out easily in a panic situation.....



I have a Captain Hook knife with the sheath attached to one of the adjustment straps on my harness. the sheath is not rigid enough. When I grab the knife strap like I would in an emergency the knife gets caught in the sheath. It is a two handed operation to get the knife clear of the sheath. Not good in an emergency.

I have my share of common sense, but, I cant figure out how to make it work one handed without modifying the sheath. Either I am doing something wrong, it is a poor design or a manufactures defect.

I am looking for suggestions.

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Mark

Since 20 Jun 2005
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I need my fix because I'm a
Naishaholic



PostSat Nov 01, 08 6:49 pm    Re: dive knife Reply with quote

<[quote="SalmonSlayer"]
toddjb wrote:
Mark wrote:
....I currently have the double blade captain hook knife but it doesn't fit conveniently anywhere on my harness. I can attach the nylon snap sheeth to the straps on the side of my harness, but since it isn't rigid I'm not sure if it would come out easily in a panic situation.....



I have a Captain Hook knife with the sheath attached to one of the adjustment straps on my harness. the sheath is not rigid enough. When I grab the knife strap like I would in an emergency the knife gets caught in the sheath. It is a two handed operation to get the knife clear of the sheath. Not good in an emergency.

I have my share of common sense, but, I cant figure out how to make it work one handed without modifying the sheath. Either I am doing something wrong, it is a poor design or a manufactures defect.

I am looking for suggestions.


Just to clarify,
I do NOT have a captain hook knife. I think thats ToddJB. I have a dive knife that is used by one hand. Just squeeze and its free.

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kitezilla

Since 22 Jun 2006
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PostSun Nov 02, 08 7:49 am    Re: dive knife Reply with quote

[quote="SalmonSlayer"][quote="toddjb"]
Mark wrote:
....I currently have the double blade captain hook knife but it doesn't fit conveniently anywhere on my harness. I cant figure out how to make it work one handed without modifying the sheath. Either I am doing something wrong, it is a poor design or a manufactures defect.

I am looking for suggestions.


If you go to the Hook knife.com site, you will see that none of their hook knives are recommended for kiteboarding, or any other activity where the knife is submerged in water. The closest activity is fishing, where, of course the fisherman stays dry, most of the time. The kiteboarding industry has not yet designed a cutting tool, specifically for kiteboarding use. The stores sell these knives, but a number of aspects of these knives fall short of the ideal design, when applied to our likely needs in kiteboarding.

As one example, just look at the sheath that most of the the hook knives come in. The sheath is designed to be hung on the parachutists, or policemans, or EMT workers, or fishermans belt...where, having the use of both hands, the person could easily and quickly extract it. The unique thing about kiteboarding, that is not taken into account with this design, is that emergencies in our activity must often be dealt with using only ONE hand.

So, I would present the case that the sheath of the Capt Hook knife is not poor design or a manufacturers defect, but is just not an adequate design for the activity of kiteboarding.

I would also present for consideration this hypothesis:

Since a cutting device is RARELY needed in the activity of kiteboarding, but that some loose object hanging off the kiter or kiter's equipment will OFTEN snag or foul itself on a loose line....that the case could be made that the kiter is better off not carrying a cutting device, if that cutting device is not seamlessly secured to the kiter, and thereby, presents a line snagging potential hazard.

So, Salmonslayer, join the interested parties at the drawing board, in an effort to iron out all the glitches in a final, successful design.

About 5 years ago, I dropped by the DaKine shop and ran a bunch of ideas by them concerning this subject. It might be time for someone in the Gorge to carry on the conversation. My suggestion (to keep it local) would be to take Ben from Edgepro, and a representative of Benchmade to the meeting.

I have a suspicion that the final, best answer to the problem will involve a properly made, high quality knife, a good sharpening device and a nicely designed sheath, incorporated into a spreader bar pad.

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SalmonSlayer

Since 27 Nov 2005
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PostSun Nov 02, 08 8:05 am    Re: dive knife Reply with quote

Mark wrote:


Just to clarify,
I do NOT have a captain hook knife. I think thats ToddJB. I have a dive knife that is used by one hand. Just squeeze and its free.


Sorry Mark,

It was a cut and paste error.

kitezilla wrote:
If you go to the Hook knife.com site, you will see that none of their hook knives are recommended for kiteboarding, or any other activity where the knife is submerged in water. The closest activity is fishing, where, of course the fisherman stays dry, most of the time. The kiteboarding industry has not yet designed a cutting tool, specifically for kiteboarding use. The stores sell these knives, but a number of aspects of these knives fall short of the ideal design, when applied to our likely needs in kiteboarding.



Thanks for the info Kitezilla.

I made the assumption when this knife was promoted and sold by a kite shop it was designed for kiteboarding.

You know what assuming does.....

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toddjb

Since 16 Oct 2007
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PostFri Nov 07, 08 4:56 pm     Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
My knife is a Wenoka Deep See squeeze knife.

Here are a couple of web sites for similar knives:

http://www.thefind.com/sports/browse-deep-see-squeeze-lock-knife

http://www.snorkelcity.com/deseesqlotit.html

Hope that helps.


Thanks for this and the pictures of the harness mount! I bought the knife and it is a quality product but I was a bit confused on how you mounted it. I'll peak at my harness again and try to follow the same thing you did. I was concerned that the two straps you have it connected to are for different systems and won't necessarily move together (one end in the leg strap, the other in the spreader bar webbing.) This seem to work okay for you?

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Mark

Since 20 Jun 2005
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I need my fix because I'm a
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PostFri Nov 07, 08 6:03 pm     Reply with quote

The sheath is fastened to the two webbing straps for the harness hook. The pic is a bit misleading as the lower strap you see (leg strap) is just put there because it (strap end) was flopping around. It really does nothing.
Hope that helps.
Mark
if not feel free to call me or PM me.

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boarderchick

Since 10 Aug 2007
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PostSat Nov 08, 08 5:22 am     Reply with quote

Nak,

Sure hope you are feeling better man!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't push it, the back is nothing to joke about, take it easy and let it heal...

About the knife, I have a similar one to Mark, unfortunately I forgot it at home and don't have it with me in Brazil.... I got it through REI, oh no actually though the Kayak Shed in Hood River. I wanted something that would actually cut lines with or without tension, wasn't too heavy on me, and I could get to it quickly. I saw the one in the Kayak Shed after looking at some other ones at other places and got it:-) That is what I will be riding with.... Don't like all the netting, and don't want to bother with it...

Hope all is well with you,
Janet

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
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PostSat Nov 08, 08 9:51 am     Reply with quote

Hey Janet! No worries, that was an old post, all better now. Very Happy Nice air you're getting in Brazil by the way!

I sewed the sheath of my C. Hook knife onto the leg of my board shorts. That's where we kept the knife in my AF days, so it feels natural. I can get it out with one hand, but you do have to pull it out slowly. I'm going to try a couple of things to see if I can't improve on that over the winter.

I wonder what alloy the blades on the C. Hook knife are? They are replaceable, which is a good thing. I left my knife in my knife pocket all season with no ill effects, but that was 100% fresh water... I wouldn't think a blade made with 440 stainless would do well, because 440 has less corrosion resistance than 316, even less than 304. the primary advantage to 440 is strength.

All of the stainless steels require exposure to oxygen to form a protective layer over the steel. Left wet with salt water, any stainless steel will corrode. On the North Sea oil rigs, they protect all exposed surfaces with high phosphorous electroless nickel plating. This plating can be applied in a very thin layer, a couple of microns. I can't remember for sure, but it seems that I recall that 5 microns was sufficient for corrosion protection. (About 0.000195") It would be interesting to see how sharp a blade would remain after being plated? I might have to play with that this winter too. Very Happy

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blowhard

Since 26 Dec 2005
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PostSat Nov 08, 08 2:27 pm     Reply with quote

Nak wrote:
Hey Janet! No worries, that was an old post, all better now. Very Happy Nice air you're getting in Brazil by the way!

I sewed the sheath of my C. Hook knife onto the leg of my board shorts. That's where we kept the knife in my AF days, so it feels natural. I can get it out with one hand, but you do have to pull it out slowly. I'm going to try a couple of things to see if I can't improve on that over the winter.

I wonder what alloy the blades on the C. Hook knife are? They are replaceable, which is a good thing. I left my knife in my knife pocket all season with no ill effects, but that was 100% fresh water... I wouldn't think a blade made with 440 stainless would do well, because 440 has less corrosion resistance than 316, even less than 304. the primary advantage to 440 is strength.

All of the stainless steels require exposure to oxygen to form a protective layer over the steel. Left wet with salt water, any stainless steel will corrode. On the North Sea oil rigs, they protect all exposed surfaces with high phosphorous electroless nickel plating. This plating can be applied in a very thin layer, a couple of microns. I can't remember for sure, but it seems that I recall that 5 microns was sufficient for corrosion protection. (About 0.000195") It would be interesting to see how sharp a blade would remain after being plated? I might have to play with that this winter too. Very Happy


My thought about the 440 is that I can sharpen it for a long time ,or they(Benchmade) will
but it will corrode as will any grade of stainless
I smeared some wax on it and no noticable rust
yet after a few days in the water

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