Cabrinha Demos, clinic with Damien Leroy, and Party

luke · Since 06 Jul 2005 399 Posts Obsessed

Hey everyone. We are scheduling a kitesurfing session at the Sand Spit in Hood River, a DVD free beer evening, and party at the River City Saloon on Saturday, June 7th. This is a great opportunity to get information from the source and score some free gear.

We will have the latest models of kites and boards from Cabrinha to demo. We will have the new Crossbow IDS kites fresh out of the wrapper. Crossbows, Switchblades, and the new Convert kites. Imperial and Custom twin tip boards; and the S-Quad surf shape from Pete Cabrinha. We actually need to drag Pete out to the spit when he is in town visiting his parents who recently bought a place in the Northwest.

In addition, champion kitesurfer and all-around nice guy, Damien Leroy will give an informal beach clinic on any moves you want some tips on. How about jumping big? Damien won the overall 2004 King of the Air. How about some sick freestyle move? Damien’s handle passes through the leg moves keep him as the highest placing American on the PKRA Tour since 2005. Sliders? He placed 2nd overall behind Andre Phillip at the 2007 Triple S in Hatteras. Racing? 2nd at the 2008 US Wind & Water Open. And he’s on the cover of the current issues of both The Kiteboarder and Kiteboarding magazines.

Cabrinha will be hosting an after kiting party with free beer and a Gorge showing of the latest DVD from ACL productions: CATALYST. We will have a great evening of throwing back a few beers; talking story with friends (new & old); and watching some killer kite action on the big screens. And for the really hard core, this party will serve as the pre-party to the River City Saloon's Purple Party.

Schedule for June 7th:
Sand Spit demos and clinic. 12 noon until 5 PM.
Evening DVD showing and free beer at River City. 7:30 until 9:00 PM
Purple Party at the River City. 9:30 until closing.

See you all there.
Ken

Mark · Fri May 30, 08 8:09 am

posted to events.

Killah B · Since 21 May 2008 6 Posts Kook

See you guys there!

boredbrain · Since 16 Feb 2006 352 Posts Hood River Obsessed

Beer is good for you.

kitezilla · Since 22 Jun 2006 453 Posts gorge Obsessed

I apologize for entering what is possibly the longest post ever posted on NWkite. I don't purposely try to be "wordy" but that's just the way it turns out..."words happen!"...sorry!

http://kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2347687&start=50&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=IDS+crossbow

The following is a reprint of three of my posts on this recent Kiteforum thread. As you can see I am very interested in understanding the way this new and possibly “ground-breaking” kite control system functions. The name of the system is I.D.S. ( Intelligent Design System), and from the initial information released by Cabrinha, it appears that the “safety system” is meant to function in a manner similar to that of a fifth line safety system.

I hope during the Demo-Day, that someone will go to the trouble of using, analyzing, evaluating and then reporting back to us by posting an unbiased user review on the IDS system and on the performance of the kite. Anyone who takes the time to read through the Kiteforum thread shown above, will see that I have a have a great deal of interest in the new control safety system from Cabrinha. I have no association with any kite company, receive no “bro-deals”, am not affiliated in any respect with any kite retailer, and pride myself on remaining independent of any influence in the kiting industry. I am just a guy who has a love for the activity and enjoys all aspects of it, as a past-time…especially the technical aspects. I wish I could be there to demo the new kites, myself, but I won’t get to the Gorge for a month.

I apologize in advance for being so wordy, and also, in advance, I thank you for the review of the IDS system.

Below are the reprints I refer to:
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First Post:
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“GAME ON!!

Now that Pete Cabhrina has gone public, I guess that our discussion of the new IDS system can resume, without feeling guilty about leaking a "top secret" piece of proprietary information.

From what Pete said in the above interview, i would conclude that my initial understanding of the IDS system was accurate...here is a repeat of my assessment and concerns:

my post on page 3:

"I wish that I had downloaded the PDF file, so that I could go back and re-analyze the 6 picture sequence which showed the safety system in use. From my recall, it looked like the safety system lowered the kite to the ground, exactly the way a fifth line lowers a "C" kite to the ground, but the IDS appeared to use the 2 front lines to do this. AND… Since the diagram of the bridle and lines showed the 2 front lines going straight from the bar to the kite, and fastening onto the kite, in a position unusually close to the center of the kite (It looked like they fastened only about a meter or so from the pump leash), I was lead to believe that the unique feature of the IDS safety system was the ability of the 2 front lines to act like a double 5th line, when the bar was pushed a certain distance forward, and to thereby turn the kite up-side-down, into the "smile" position, simulating the action that occurs, when a kite is thrown to its 5th line safety.

I think that there is some confusion in the this discussion in the use of the term "flagging". Some people use the term "flag" to describe both the position that a kite takes when released to its 5th line safety (what I have called the "smile" position), and also to describe the position that a kite takes when released to a traditional single front line or rear line reride safety system (I think of this as "flagging" ...just like a flag stretched out flat and waving, from a flag pole). For clarity, I propose that we call the kite's position as suspended on a classic 5th line...."smiling" and that we call the kite's position as suspended on a classic single front or rear line reride system ...."flagging". I don't think that I can be accused of quibbling about semantics in this request, for the following reason: The technique which will probably be needed, using the IDS system, to safely access the kite in deep water, will entail a 2 step process: (1) First, bringing the kite down to the water on its back, in the "smiling" procedure, and then, (2) Second, "flagging" out the kite onto one line, in preparation to gaining access to the kite using either the "line wrap onto the bar" or the "one line" self-rescue procedure. I base this hypothesis on the idea that, even though it may be possible to access the kite by, first, wrapping the "mini-fifth line" going to the 2 front lines onto the bar to secure the kite in the depowered, tame, "smile" position it will not be practical to do so, because of the difficulty of grasping and working your way up to the kite, while, at the same time keeping an even grip on two different lines, as you would have to do when using the "one line" self-rescue method. If one of the 2 lines slipped out of your hand, then I can picture the kite powering up or wobbling, and making it difficult to continue climbing up the lines. A similar problem could be encountered when using the "wrap the lines on the bar" self-rescue method, if the 2 lines were not wrapped equally.

Therefore, I would conclude that the safest self-rescue method using the IDS system, would entail a 2 step process, similar to that of the older Flysurfer kites, where the kiter, first, would “throw” the kite to its safety, by unhooking and letting go of the bar, and this action would bring the kite to the surface of the water, in its "smile" position, but the kite would still have some drag and power to it, and then, to get rid of that drag and power, the kiter would have to, then, do the secondary “pull-stop” maneuver, which would make the kite lay flat on the water in the “flagging” position, where it would be suspended on only one line. The kiter would then use the “one line” or “wrap the lines on the bar” self-rescue procedure to access the kite.

For this reason, I think that the IDS system would have to have “Oh, Sh*T” handles on the rear lines. I think that, due to the ‘09 Crossbow’s lack of pulleys on the rear lines, that the kite would truly “flag” on its rear line, just like most modern SLE kites. Once the kite was “flagged” on its single rear line, then, the kiter could safely self-rescue, and access the kite, using one of the proven methods.

I base all the above hypothetical analysis on the belief that the safest way for a kiter, in deep water, to retrieve a kite, is by working his way to a kite, which is tensioned on one line, only. The truth of the matter will be determined by real-time-real-world testing. A person in the above link brings out a good point to be explored...that of what will actually happen after a kite has looped a number of time....will the IDS safety system still work."

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Second Post:
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“After hearing Pete's comments, I still have the same concerns. I am especially concerned about how critical it is to keep the 2 front lines of equal length, as the kiter works his way up to the IDS-deactivated-kite, during the self-rescue procedure. I can foresee problems with the kite accidentally powering up, during the procedure, if one of the front lines (due to unequal bar windings) inadvertently receives the full force of the stress from the kite, but where the kite can not fully "flag" on that front line.

I was disappointed with the response to the unanswered query submitted by one of the questioners...the one about the possibility of a kite instability or wobbling problem, due to the close attachment of the front lines on the leading edge...the questioner related the close attachment points to that of a car, having the two front wheels closer together than the rear wheels. It seems to me that this is a very important question to be answered. During the full deployment of the IDS safety system, where the full force of the kite is divided between the stress taken by the two front lines, I could conceive that the the kite would not respond exactly as a kite would respond, when suspended on a single fifth line. Instead, I could imagine that the forces generated on the kite would constantly shift from one front line to the other front line, causing a "undampened forced harmonic vibration" of a sort where the kite would wobble from side to side, seeking out an unstable , and possibly dangerous position. During this potentially unstable situation, the inadvertent shortening of one of the front lines could worsen the potential oscillation, throwing the kite into a powered condition. The worse case scenario would be where the kite loops or hot launches.

I anxiously await the reviews of the initial independent testers.”
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Third Post:
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“Ronnie,

You said:

"From what I heard, I have no reason to worry about winding in the two front lines when getting to the kite. It may be that by the time you get to the point here you start winding the front lines, you also wind the back lines almost immediately, which would be safer than most current kites. You do not need a kite width difference with this system, just the distance from the front to the back of the kite."

Few people have the kind of interest in the intricacies and details of the different kite control systems that you and I share. I always appreciate your analysis of the technical side of kiteboarding.

The statement you made above starts with the assumption that the traditional fifth line kite safety system and the IDS safety system share a great deal in common, and at first glance and at first description of the IDS system, this appears to be so, and I hope so, and I hope that your confidence in the functionality of this new system is justified. If this is the case, then the IDS safety system would be a major breakthrough in kite technology. I admit to being a incurable skeptic about all technology advances, until I completely understand the workings and have observed what actually happens in the real world operation of the technology.

So, to continue the discussion, here is an issue I would like to have you and others comment on.

Issue: Considering the fact that a traditional fifth line safety system only works correctly in holding a kite on the surface of the water, powerless and stable, and on its back (in the "smile" position)....only when the tensioned fifth line is properly balanced with a small amount of tension on each back line. If all the line tension from the kite is placed on the fifth line, the kite will tend to fly up in the air. This up-flying kite is not much of a problem, since the up-side-down kite is very stable, when flying on ONE line, due to the physics of the situation producing an automatic aerodynamic self-balancing, and this self-balancing occurs mainly because of the "One-Point" suspension on the kite. And further, consider the fact that the traditional fifth line safety system, when the force on the fifth line and the lesser forces on the two back lines are in proper balance, then the points of suspension of the kite form a TRIANGLE, that being the one attachment point of the 5th line and the two attachment points of the rear lines. Even with systems like North, where the 5th line is attached with 2 points to the kite, one can, through force vector analysis, determine the one effective axis-point, on the leading edge, so the triangle formed by the 3 effective points of suspension still applies.

The IDS system, in contrast, involves 4 attachment or suspension points, and so the points describe the corners of a quadrangle, specifically, a trapepoid shape...and it is this major difference between a fifth-line system and the IDS system that causes me to be skeptical of the possible reaction of the kite to differing or varying line forces, which may be generated during the self-rescue-kite retrieval procedure.

My first reaction is to imagine that the line forces, which will be generated by the differing lengths of the 4 lines, which I can imagine will occur, as the kiter winds up the 4 lines on the bar....could act to induce first a wobbling kite, then a kite flying up off the surface, and finally, in a worst case scenario, a kite which is wildly oscillating, powered up, out of control, and looping kite. I can't imagine this scenario occurring in low wind, but, in overpowered gusty, stormy conditions, where the rider is desperate to get the kite down, I would not rule out this scenario. I have witnessed the outstanding performance of the traditional fifth line safety system under the above described conditions...and anxiously await the proof that the IDS system can match this high degree of performance.

What do you think? “

DROCK999 · Since 31 May 2007 852 Posts Left Coast Opinionated

kitezilla · Since 22 Jun 2006 453 Posts gorge Obsessed

As requested, here is the short version of my request that someone demo the new IDS system and report back to us:

The IDS control system is being promoted as having “4-line bridle kite simplicity with 5th-line safety.” The system appears to be very similar to that of the 2007 F-one Delta-C kite, and appears to be the same as that of the new North Evo.

My request is that someone investigate this feature of the new Cabrinha IDS kite. I am not requesting that someone post a complete review of the performance of the new Crossbow, in that I believe that sort of review goes against NWKite forum policy, and only serves to initiate and fuel a “my kite brand can beat up your kite brand” pimping squabble. Let’s leave that BS to other kite-forums. I am limiting my request to that of the relative effectiveness of the “safety system”. It would be nice to have the Cabrinha representative demonstrate the recommended procedure to be used with the IDS system in performing a “deep water self-rescue” procedure, paying particular attention to the importance of keeping the lengths and tensions of the two lines equal.

I am guessing that everyone would prefer a picture rather than another “a thousand words” from me, so here is a picture illustrating the mechanism of operation, which I believe is common to these 3 different kite brands.

luke · Since 06 Jul 2005 399 Posts Obsessed

We rode the new Crossbow IDS yesterday at the spit. The word from the people that tried it was awesome performance. One saying "light years ahead".

No one activated the IDS system.

We plan on going down today and testing the IDS.

The primary safety on a Cabrinha is the Total Depower System. That has not changed and still works perfect.

From what I understand the IDS is an additional feature that allows you to self land the kite. We will try it out today and we also try what kitezilla mentioned above, which is an emergency landing/rescue in deep water.

Kitezilla and for anyone else that wants to demo the kites but can not make it this Saturday for the event and party; you can go to Big Winds and Bea can arrange a demo for you.

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6548 Posts Couve / Hood Site Lackey

Just for future reference, i think we are going to discourage gear discussions in these stickied party announcement posts.

I kind of get the feeling it can turn into an advertisement for commercial / profit type services instead of just letting people know about a free party or event.

That said, it would be interesting to hear more about the new Cabrinha system. Hater or brand comparison type comments to other brands will be removed.

Bettyboarder · Thu Jun 05, 08 9:02 am

How much $$ to get into to River City for the party?

genek · Since 21 Jul 2006 2165 Posts East Po KGB

Hopefully free if you get in before 9:30...right Wink

?

Monica · Since 02 Aug 2006 20 Posts

Damien is in the film Lines. I heard rumor that you will also be showing Lines
at the free party?

Pepi · Sat Jun 07, 08 12:55 pm