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Foil hardware?

 
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shred_da_gorge

Since 12 Nov 2008
945 Posts

Opinionated



PostMon Sep 14, 20 7:49 pm    Foil hardware? Reply with quote

I just got my first foil setup (alloy) which came with a variety of black bolts and anti-seize. Now I'm no metallurgist, but I have heard plenty of horror stories about seized foil setups, and immediately wanted to ask the question: since this is not stainless steel, would it be worth the investment to replace (all or select of) the stock hardware?

For the most part, I found answers in a helpful previous thread using search:
http://nwkite.com/forums/t-41341.html

...but I wouldn't mind hearing other more experienced and knowledgeable opinions.

Also, the black bolts have blue Loctite (or equivalent) on them. Good idea to apply if I upgrade my hardware to 316 stainless as well?

I should note the wings will stay fixed to the fuselage for long periods and used mainly in fresh but sometimes salt water. My original impetus was replacing the board's 25mm Phillips base bolts with 30mm hex head (for tool consistency) with hardware I bought at Hood River Supply (Ace; not sure if it's 316 grade).

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ZMar

Since 13 May 2018
22 Posts

 



PostMon Sep 14, 20 8:24 pm     Reply with quote

Personally I’ve always run stainless or titanium hardware are I use a little Vaseline on each bolt before it goes in. I’ve ridden a ton in both fresh and saltwater and I’ve left foils assembled for months at a time without a single issue. I’m sure other have slightly different practices but the vaseline method has worked great and it’s as cheap as you can get.

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
3884 Posts
Camas
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PostMon Sep 14, 20 9:04 pm     Reply with quote

There are any number of metals your black coated bolts could be. Ideally, they'd be coated Titanium. There's a black coating for Ti that's really quite amazing for preventing galvanic corrosion. The problem is, you aren't sure until your bolts seize permanently in the aluminum. regardless, there are only two real choices for hardware: Stainless steel or titanium. Both will cause the aluminum to corrode if there isn't some type of protection, either a permanent coating or some type of lubricant designed to prevent galvanic corrosion.

Any number of lubricants are capable of preventing galvanic corrosion, but IMHO the best--by far--is Tefgel.This stuff will never wash away and will absolutely prevent the bolt from seizing in the aluminum.

Bear in mind that once you lubricate the thread joint, far less torque is required to achieve the desired force in the joint. The big issue is you can very easily WAY over-tighten the bolt. This can cause damage in carbon parts and/or strip threads in aluminum. Blue loctite won't have this issue and if applied properly can prevent galvanic corrosion. However, it's easier to make a mistake with the application and end up with galvanic corrosion.

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Windian

Since 28 Apr 2008
831 Posts
Newport, OR
NEWPORT OG



PostMon Sep 14, 20 9:14 pm     Reply with quote

A little grease can go a long way in preventing corrosive locking of fasteners. I like Lanocote as it is designed for marine use, fairly inexpensive and is easy to clean up when it ends up where you don't want it.

All my foil fasteners are now high grade stainless steel to titanium connections which supposedly don't need to be greased, but I still do it anyways. I live on the coast and rarely ride in anything but saltwater and have not had to deal with corrosive locking yet with Lanocote.

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deminimis

Since 15 Jul 2014
303 Posts
On the Rocks
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PostTue Sep 15, 20 7:21 am     Reply with quote

I use a copper based automotive anti seize. Like above, a little goes a long, long way. The stuff is a mess, so another reason to use just a smidge. So long as I see some remnants on the threads, I do not re-apply. You could also wrap with teflon tape every time, but that's probably not very practical.

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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
1515 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
XTreme Poster



PostTue Sep 15, 20 8:38 am     Reply with quote

After a near deal-breaker event in Mexico when I needed to break down my wing-to-fuselage connection for luggage, I've now developed the habit of disassembling my foil hardware at least once per month.
2017
I had the LF aluminum setup with a Stringy wing. Took a million tons of torque to break apart the frozen thread. This gear had not been apart since August in the Gorge and I was in tropical Mexico without an impact wrench. Picture a heavyset man standing on the socket while his buddy cranks with a long breaker bar. Now I always also use lithium grease, just a tiny dab.

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deminimis

Since 15 Jul 2014
303 Posts
On the Rocks
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PostTue Sep 15, 20 1:01 pm     Reply with quote

And watch that wing. They bite. They bite hard.

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ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1300 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster



PostTue Sep 15, 20 1:36 pm     Reply with quote

I've had good results with Stainless Steel hardware from Ace in HR.
I rarely take my foil apart - I had it going for 2 years (Gorge, Maui, Baja) and it came apart no problem - no corrosion.
I use Marine grease. Slingshot supplied it with the Ghost Whisperer years ago and I still have the same tube.

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shred_da_gorge

Since 12 Nov 2008
945 Posts

Opinionated



PostTue Sep 15, 20 2:20 pm     Reply with quote

So glad I rehashed this OT - thanks for all the helpful deets! And Kip I always love your visuals, but thanks to you and Ho-Toe can't get the smell of mutton out of my head (better than wildfire smoke, I guess).

Given the price of this (Cabrinha) setup I'm guessing the black is alloy not titanium. Regardless, I'll stick with the Ace HW that I already picked up, but shop around to replace all the rest with bonafide 316. (Also will check out the recommended lubes).

And heck with the wing - trailing edge of this mast is sharp like katana! I'll be the guy you might see wearing helmet, impact vest, faceguard... cup...

Now to solve the remaining part of this foiling equation... back onto the windy water!

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Freeride Kiting

Since 08 Jul 2011
658 Posts
Alaska / PNW / Baja
Instructor



PostWed Sep 16, 20 6:44 am    Lanocote Reply with quote

Lanocote - work very well as does all the other goops mentioned above. All our foils in Mexico and Alaska have a bit on the hardware. Since we leave our foils together almost all season in MX - we have a habit at the end of the day after lessons to back off the bolts a turn or so too.

Dan

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
3884 Posts
Camas
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PostWed Sep 16, 20 7:56 am     Reply with quote

shred_da_gorge wrote:

And heck with the wing - trailing edge of this mast is sharp like katana! I'll be the guy you might see wearing helmet, impact vest, faceguard... cup...


You can take that edge off; sharp trailing edges are pointless. (Pun intended. Smile )

You don't want to just use sandpaper, that can result in a rounded edge which can "sing." Use a rigid sanding block, a piece of wood works great. You want a nice square edge, so hold the block perpendicular to the edge as you sand. If you have a micrometer, you can sand till you get a 1.5 mm wide edge no problem. If you don't have that tool, just sand till you take the edge off. Try and sand the whole edge evenly. If you sand too much you'll know because the mast will start to "sing." To fix that sand the edge at a 45 degree angle on both sides to slightly reduce the width of your square edge. You might want to ride the setup before you start sanding, it might be "singing" already. You just don't want to make the sound any louder. If it doesn't sing now, then you can take the edge off knowing that if it starts to sing it's your work that is the issue.

When I got my Slingshot Ghost Whisper wings, you could just about shave with the trailing edge. I sanded the edges to a blunt, square, edge 1.5 mm wide. Absolutely no adverse results.

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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
1515 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
XTreme Poster



PostWed Sep 16, 20 9:21 am     Reply with quote

Nak wrote:
shred_da_gorge wrote:

And heck with the wing - trailing edge of this mast is sharp like katana! I'll be the guy you might see wearing helmet, impact vest, faceguard... cup...


You can take that edge off; sharp trailing edges are pointless. (Pun intended. Smile ) \



There have been endless discussions on the subject of filing the trailer edges on Kiteforum. Most do this for injury, some do it to kill the annoying whistle (always caused by trailing edges). Here is the solution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oidk2I2A0tQ&t=78s

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Kip Wylie

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deminimis

Since 15 Jul 2014
303 Posts
On the Rocks
Obsessed



PostWed Sep 16, 20 9:27 am     Reply with quote

I'm going to add giant pool noodles to all my edges. On day 10 of a nasty calf injury.

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