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mako with 4 fins

 
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coepilot

Since 13 Jul 2016
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PostTue Feb 25, 20 9:32 am    mako with 4 fins Reply with quote

Anyone riding a mako using 4 fins?

just curious how that changes the ride...

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
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PostTue Feb 25, 20 12:36 pm     Reply with quote

That's a good question; I'd like to hear about this too. I've tried my 150 Mako finless and I really didn't like it. It doesn't do well without fins.

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Bill C

Since 15 Sep 2005
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Portland
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PostTue Feb 25, 20 5:29 pm     Reply with quote

If you want Mako style with 4 fins, buy the Nomad Wave-Twin Tip. My favorite twin-tip.

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
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PostTue Feb 25, 20 9:49 pm     Reply with quote

You can ride the Mako with 4 fins as well, I just never tried it.

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moondog

Since 15 Aug 2007
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PostWed Feb 26, 20 6:20 am     Reply with quote

I have noticed no difference in either direction. What I do notice is how much better carving is when you are on a wave face and the back of the board has the 3 fins.
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Matt V

Since 26 Oct 2014
394 Posts
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PostWed Feb 26, 20 8:10 am     Reply with quote

I can't give you advice for this board, but I do know lots about 2 vs 3 vs 4 vs 5 fin configurations on some test platforms I have experimented on with a kite and prone surfing. So you may want to take my ideas with a grain of salt when applying them to the mako.


Most of the difference in fin configuration comes from the riders inputs, not necessarily from the fin feedback. So if you change your stance over a 3fin config a few things will happen. But if you make that same change in stance over a 4fin config, something else will happen. And in some ways, a 4 can be ridden the same as a 3 fin, but that is not ideal.

On a 3fin (or 1 or 5fin w/ a significant center fin) you need to stand over the top of the board and NOT load the fins unless you want to break the tail loose. If you just point the nose of the board, the board travels in a line along the center line of the board. Keeping the nose calm in chop is key to upwind.

On a 4fin board (or 2 or 5 fin WITHOUT a significant center fin) You hike out a bit when you want to engage the fins. Standing over the top of the board, like you do on a 3fin board, will be a bit unstable if you do that on a 4 fin board. This unstable center position is not really used in kiting, but it is used in surfing to a small degree. Stability is only really achieved on a 4fin board when you hike out and provide some sideways pressure on one set of fins. Again, if you put the same sideways pressure on a 3 fin board, it would break loose/spin out. But without the a significant center fin, a 4 fin configuration loads up the more you pressure the fins. Read that as the harder you push sideways, the harder the fins push back on you sideways. This sideways push means you "ride the fins" more so than riding the board. When going upwind, the board (and you) are actually traveling slightly down wind of where the board is pointing (crabing). But the nice thing about a 4 fin in chop is that you don't need to worry about the nose bouncing around - just let it! Just ride the fins, look where you want to go, and don't worry about the board being pointed somewhere else.


So give the above, it is easy to see that 3fin configurations are more "stable" (and you must keep them stable), if you want to look at it that way. Another way to look at 3 fin configurations is that it is more like a skateboard that carves nice curves, but can still quickly redirect with input on the tail - then reestablishing a direction of travel.

4fins tend to be less stable - TO THE POINT THAT IT IS ACTUALLY AN ADVANTAGE/MORE FUN......for me, at least. Another way to look at 4 fins is that they are like a light switch. You push pretty hard on them, and they push back, but they also "snap" over to the other side very quickly, almost making your head spin at the speed with which they do this.

However given the high concave of the Mako, I am not sure you will see the same effects. But I think you should go for it (4fins) and give it a season riding that way. That is the only way to make a real evaluation. And make sure you realize that on a 4fin, you need to ride it differently than when it is in the 3fin configuration. There is no way to realize the potential of 4fins without some serious dedication and time - you can't make an evaluation in just 5 sessions. Jeremy will back me up on this one. And post back with your findings on this!

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knotwindy

Since 25 Sep 2011
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PostWed Feb 26, 20 9:07 am     Reply with quote

Do the new Makos have a setup for 4 fins on one end? Used to not. I thought when you asked about 4 fins you meant 3 at one end and one center one on the other.
I rode an older one with the 3/1 setup and felt it was too sticky/stiff. Preferred the single larger fin to the 3. Was better on the wave faces but not as stuck as the 3 fin set. Only really felt it on the wave/swell face or spinning the board. Straight line you are on the rail so no real difference. If that’s what you were asking?

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
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PostWed Feb 26, 20 11:38 am     Reply with quote

knotwindy wrote:
I thought when you asked about 4 fins you meant 3 at one end and one center one on the other.


Ditto.

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
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PostWed Feb 26, 20 11:39 am     Reply with quote

Bill C wrote:
If you want Mako style with 4 fins, buy the Nomad Wave-Twin Tip. My favorite twin-tip.


I never heard of those before; Nice looking board!! If I wasn't almost 100% foil now I'd have to look very seriously at that board.

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bigjohn

Since 13 Mar 2012
457 Posts

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PostThu Feb 27, 20 9:21 am     Reply with quote

Matt V

I found your description to be spot on for fin configurations on a surfboard.

It's funny because when you are chatting on the beach about fin configurations some people say a 4 fin cuts faster, some people say a 3 fin cuts faster, people talk about slashy, upwind ability etc. etc.

In the end it really comes down to where you place your feet and how you ride.

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Matt V

Since 26 Oct 2014
394 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
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PostFri Feb 28, 20 7:32 am     Reply with quote

bigjohn wrote:
Matt V
......some people say a 4 fin cuts faster, some people say a 3 fin cuts faster, people talk about slashy, upwind ability etc. etc.

In the end it really comes down to where you place your feet and how you ride.


Yeah I could write a dissertation about the different properties people talk about Thruster vs. Quad. And then trying to lay down a rational reality-based explanation on top of that, well...... You're getting up into encyclopedia Mattannica set levels.

There were a few reasons why I did my testing of different boards and eventually the same exact board with different fin configurations. One of those reasons was because I could not understand what Surfers and kite Surfers were talking about with respect to the behavior and capabilities of quad vs. Thruster. So maybe that's proof that nobody can talk this into you, and you just wind up having to figure it out yourself. But I have seen a few kiters have their eyes opened with just a little bit of advice such as hiking out and riding the fins on a quad, and standing over the top and pointing the board with a Thruster. These two different approaches do seem to get one's foot in the door on understanding the differences and maximizing the capabilities of the one which you are not familiar with.

Too bad I think we're a little bit outside of what the OP wanted as far as advice.

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knotwindy

Since 25 Sep 2011
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PostFri Feb 28, 20 7:47 am     Reply with quote

So, to simplify this, do you mean

All boards make different bottom turns & top turns depending upon where you put your feet? And you should ride them lots of different ways for a while to see what you like best? For now, as it might change over time?

Sort of back on topic now?

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Matt V

Since 26 Oct 2014
394 Posts
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PostSun Mar 01, 20 9:59 am     Reply with quote

knotwindy wrote:
So, to simplify this, do you mean

All boards make different bottom turns & top turns depending upon where you put your feet? And you should ride them lots of different ways for a while to see what you like best? For now, as it might change over time?


No. Same board, with different fin configs, needs to be ridden diffetent.

3 fin thruster can't be ridden like a quad. A quad can be ridden like a thruster, but it will be unstable an and never reach its full potential. Again, same board, just different fin configs.

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scottnorby

Since 23 Sep 2005
500 Posts
Cascadia - Seattle - Encinitas
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PostSat Mar 21, 20 8:46 pm     Reply with quote

Wow
Spot in with the fin description Post

The “ride the fins” description is perfect.
Almost a form of foiling. Floaty and on edge
Like riding the nose surfing

This also happens with a high volume board
The vessel doesnt control the direction as
Much as the fins.... a little bouncy but it feels
like sliding along the edge. The grip is solid if
the fins are big enough.

Theres a reason fins are expensive
They are a huge influence in direction, drag
and speed (lift similar to a foil )

Anyways— cool post man

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Windance Crew

Since 18 Apr 2008
466 Posts
Hood River Kite Shop
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PostWed Mar 25, 20 9:00 am     Reply with quote

Hey,

The Mako has such a deep concave that you don't need 4 fins. Flatter boards do though. The Makos rail grip like the concave on a slalom water ski.

The Mako rides like a twin tipped wave board.

However for those that really want a 4 finned board Ocean Rodeo now makes the Smoothy. It has 4 fins and a deep double concave.
https://www.windance.com/Ocean-Rodeo-Smoothie-Twin-130/46884/

Dave
Windance Boardshop

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