DO NOT LAUNCH AT THE EVENT SITE!!!!!!

trevorsmith · Since 25 Apr 2005 501 Posts PDX Addicted

Public Ownership of Submerged and Submersible Land
http://www.oregon.gov/DSL/NAV/whoownsthewaterways.shtml

This is more of a question, than to say we should start doing it...

Just curious, if people are launching below the high water mark..how can the Port or anyone else have anything to say about it. If Kiter and Launcher are in the water or below high water mark. This is actually deemed "Public" land.

Just as if you live on a river, someone with a boat, can just come by and hang out on your waterfront as long as they are below high water mark. Nothing you can do.

Again this is more of a question, than to say we should start doing it.

tekko · Since 20 Feb 2006 376 Posts White Salmon Liquid Force

The windsurfers locally achieved what they did by organizing and working together in #'s of people, organized under an association, with a leader who can speak on behalf of the group.

When the water was high last year there was a call to action to motivate the reorganization of the CGKA. When the water went down.. so did the follow through of said association.

I was at the last meeting and when the port asked to hear form the kiteboarding association there was a moment of confusion.. as there are 2 speakers for the group.. and the group hadn't met to share ideas that the group can get behind and support in aving a chosen leader speak for them.

I was right up front and coupld see the frustration in Sherry's eyes due to the simple fact that last year at this time they specifically requested to have 1 speaker or go to person to communicate to the port for the group.. and yet a year later it looked like, even with the formation of the group, we did not have a clear speaker to represent the group. Without being able to even satisfy that one request, that was made directly from the port, giving us instructions on how to effectively communicate with them, we look like a bunch of monkeys just yapping.

No offense to Jim or Cory... both could and should do a good job.. but we need to have CGKA group meetings prior to the port meetings to share ideas and plans that 1 chosen speaker can present on our behalf.

Without proactive motivation and organization from everyone reading on here, getting together to move forward common ideas, we will never have a voice for change in this community. Instead, we will all just type our complaints and grievances here for each other to read... never getting any useful ideas outside of our tiny little group of local riders.

It is time fo the CGKA voted leaders to step up and lead... or step aside and find someone else to lead.

I know that the KA and WA's are working together on a plan, but in the meantime people are out riding then coming home to share ideas here on NWkite... BUT NWkite is not the CGKA.

The windsurfers worked hard to create the nice places they have. This hard work involved bringing together the masses to stand behind common ideas and working in force for change. Their association is not only made up of local members, but they have reached out to the greater community that uses the Gorge , and therefore have members all over.... representing the very people we have noted who pack the event site in the summer.

Argueing on here will never solve the issues. Most of the offenders probably are the ones who are not even on this forum.

We need to step out of our NWKite comfort zone and gather face to face to share thoughts/ideas, and then move forward with plans.. because as the port has noted on many many occasions, they have no interest in hearing from a handful of kiters representing only themselves.

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6549 Posts Couve / Hood Honored Founder

Good points Tekko... I agree we need one voice, and we elected those leaders last year for that purpose. But is there any reason we can't have both discussion online and offline? Coordinate online and in person, then send one representative (the one we elected) to meet with the Port.

This is no offense to anyone, but there are plenty of us who paid CGKA membership fees, pay local property taxes, support the local businesses, kite constantly, but because of work and other responsibilities cannot always make these midweek 6pm meetings.

Also consider the time of year. I remember last year when we elected the CGKA leaders, the question was asked how many folks would be out of town for the winter, half the room raised their hands. So not all the stakeholders can be present, but that does not mean they aren't listening (and talking) online.

This site receives 300-500 unique visitors each day. Far less actually post, but the numbers are there. The internet is the perfect facility to get organized on this issue.

So I say try to at least build some consensus online and in person, and then Jim (the elected rep) goes before the Port and represents everyone. If you can't build consensus, at least try to make things transparent as possible. Jim, Sherry, and Pepi have done a pretty good job at this so far. But usually it sounds like the actual terms of agreement have already be finalized and will be "presented" at some meeting.

Pepi made a good point at last year's CGKA, when he did fundraisers for the CGWA most of the success came from raising money from folks from Seattle, Portland, and Canada even. People will support the CGKA when they feel they are being fairly represented.

tekko · Since 20 Feb 2006 376 Posts White Salmon Liquid Force

PKH Sorry to confuse my points.

I agree and am 100% for organizing happening on NWkite.

What I should have been saying was that it doesn't seem that we are organized to take the discussion from the online forum back out onto the street and to meetings.

We definitely need the reach of NWkite, especially, as you said, with so many people not in town or able to get to physical meetings. What I don't see though, are the organized leaders of the association actively engaging the community through the forum in order to share ideas and build said consensus from which to lead and speak for the group.

Cory.. are you on this forum? Jim, are you active on here, reading, even when not posting as CGKA?

Maybe some sort of CGKA sticky thread that is soley for the purpose of communicating with each other and having interactive discussions with our chosen spokespeople.. before they go into meetings to represent us and speak to the community and port on the behalf of the members?

Maybe this year, once our immediate spring problems are sorted, we can have organized communication and ideas flowing towards growth..and keep the discussions open, so progress can be made.

It was said at the past port / rec meeting that nothing could be done (about the sand) this year due to permit timing. Yet it was also pointed out by the 'expert' (didn't catch his name) that with a little planning and effort from all parties, the whole stretch of rip rap from event site to the hook could be turned into sloping sand beach.. and that it would actually be more natural and BETTER Salmon Habitat.

The event site grass and other windsurf association projects didn't happen by reacting every year to what nature deals, but rather long term planning for better facilities for the whole sport to grwo and have access locally.

If we cannot get to the point where we can actually rally in numbers to sort out our yearly situations by being RE-ACTIVE, we have no chance of doing the long term PRO-ACTIVE planning and work that would provide us and all of the users many more access points and better facilities.

forrest · Tue Mar 20, 07 10:53 am

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6549 Posts Couve / Hood Honored Founder

Good stuff tekko... I offered to create a CGKA specific group before, but I also cautioned that sometimes when you do that it takes away visibility (since most folks check just the main forum.)

Then again you could always keep echo'ing important topics from the CGKA forum to the main forum. Also titling CGKA specific threads accordingly would help, ie:

CGKA: Event Site

I appreciate those who have stepped up to the leadership roles in the CGKA, but we do need a little more involvement from the members themselves.

bandito · Since 07 May 2005 178 Posts Photographer

"we are going to place buoys that mark where kiteboarding is allowed and NOT allowed"

If these "buoys" aren't put in place by the State Marine Board then they don't mean anything and are a water hazard. If a kiter gets his lines caught on the buoy and is injured the party that placed the buoy is responsible. The port has no jurisdiction over us once we are off their property, so I don't see how any kind of water based separation will ever be enforceable.
Bandito

sherrybohn · Since 16 Jun 2006 71 Posts

"The port has no jurisdiction over us once we are off their property, so I don't see how any kind of water based separation will ever be enforceable. "

Once again..... I'll state that it isn't just the port that is "driving" this. The port, DSL and State Marine Board are ALL working together with the "community" (CGWA, CGKA, swimmers and et.al) to try and come to a solution so that everyone can enjoy safe access to and in the water.

Enforceable.....probably not. Cooperation.....hopefully.

bandito · Since 07 May 2005 178 Posts Photographer

"Once again..... I'll state that it isn't just the port that is "driving" this. The port, DSL and State Marine Board are ALL working together with the "community" (CGWA, CGKA, swimmers and et.al) to try and come to a solution so that everyone can enjoy safe access to and in the water. "

Where was all this help last spring when we were launching out of the corner of the Kite Beach parking lot because of high water? Where were the buoys dividing the event site so that kiters could use the lower half to launch and land?
Bandito

OREGON DEPT. OF LANDS
"According to Oregon court cases the waterway may be used by the public for certain purposes if it meets the state test of navigable-for-public-use.
Under this doctrine, the public has the right to use waterways for navigation, commerce or recreation, even where the bed is privately-owned, and to make "reasonable, incidental use of the bed and banks."

endoshred · Since 22 May 2006 232 Posts HR Stoked

Great comments everyone.

Pepi whould it be possible for you to discuss the history of how the event site was lobbied for planned and funded? Also how has the cgwa gained funding to open access for other gorge sites (rowena, hatchery, dougs, ect)? It seems now almost impossible to find and develop additonal sites for windsurfing due to many factors such as rail road crossings, state land use issues and most importantly, money. If it is a problem for the cgwa to add sites, it seems that the kiters will have even bigger hurdles to cross being that kiting is generally less accepted governmentally versus windsurfing. having the port buyin to a global plan that could create a wide sandy beachfront from the event site to the hook would take a large joint effort between many organizations to fund and plan. if fisheries would benefit this could be a huge selling point and get more allies on our side. but after 17 years watching the stagnent development of the waterfront without a clear longterm plan (the family park plan as an example), it seems that any changes will be hard fought. it will take very strong thick-skinned leaders to weather the storm. we kiters need to embrace the windsurfers and visa-versa to get thing done. no pettiness, just hard work, cooperation and lots of fundraising. money and a strong cohesive organization can make things happen.

seems that the cgwa and kgka leaders could weekly update us on all efforts and seek input on this forum. pepi, you should also invite the windsurfers to read and respond on this site. then we can hear all sides and understand each others needs. this would allow for improved cooperation. plus we already have sherry providing great port input.

PoleVaulter · Since 18 Mar 2007 7 Posts Gorge New Member

So windsurfers get:

- accces to launch from the event site
- access to launch from the sandbar
- access to rig at the sandbar/event site
- specified areas in the water that are exclusive to them

We get:
- permission to swim over to the sandbar from the event site
- no rigging at the event site
- permission to pay parking fees and park at the event site
- less freedom on the water (buoys?)

We gain nothing and lose in a few areas. Could they ever really regulate anyone PARKING at the event site? Where is the compromise here from the windsurfers?

gabe · Since 16 May 2005 491 Posts Obsessed

those at the event site are old, unhappy, and have miserable skills. thus they need to continuously remind themselves that kiting looks like no fun.fair trade.

they are pathetic, let them scowl in peace.

sherrybohn · Since 16 Jun 2006 71 Posts

"So windsurfers get:

- accces to launch from the event site
- access to launch from the sandbar
- access to rig at the sandbar
- specified areas in the water that are exclusive to them"

Where are you getting your information? Have you seen the proposed plan? I sure haven't and probably won't until the meeting on the 2nd....but from what I've been "hearing" I doubt that windsurfers will have access to/want to launch from/rig from the sandbar.

Again, from what I've heard..... the "discussed" buoys were being propsed to "mark" a no launch, land, wake, jibe, swim zone. Keep the activities seperate.

Another proposed "solution" is do nothing. Make it a free for all and when someone get's hurt let the lawyers and insurance companies make some money proving/solving the litigation that will happen possibly shutting down access to everyone

endoshred · Since 22 May 2006 232 Posts HR Stoked

"So windsurfers get:

- accces to launch from the event site
- access to launch from the sandbar
- access to rig at the sandbar
- specified areas in the water that are exclusive to them"

I'm 90% kiter, but still 10% windsurfer. windsurfers were here first and staked claim. for 25 years they have organized worked in cooperation with government agencies to plan, fundraise, and construct excellent sites for their.....and my sport. windsurfing in the gorge has and will continue to be a huge attraction for people from accross the country and around the world. the event site has been host to championship windsurfing events and is an iconic site for windsurfing. we as kiters need to be remembering we are still the side attraction....but an important side attraction. just remember to think globally not selfishly think that kiting is king. cooperation is key!

EdG · Since 19 Dec 2005 425 Posts Just a Kook that's Obsessed

Endo, I agree with what you just said except the STAKED CLAIM. To me that means windsurfer own the property, much like a Yaught Club/ Private Marina. I don't think that's the case.

I also don't think things are going to change in HR. I just keep hoping Very Happy