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Lyle Sandbar Access Meeting:Wednesday, September 28th
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gnac

Since 05 Sep 2014
66 Posts
Husum
 



PostThu Sep 15, 16 9:35 pm    Lyle Sandbar Access Meeting:Wednesday, September 28th Reply with quote

I'm not sure if anyone on this forum would be interested in this kind of thing, but just in case:

http://mapard.org/lyle-sandbar-access-meeting/


Wednesday, September 28th 7:00 PM Lyle Lions Club. 503 Lewis and Clark Hwy.

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Last edited by gnac on Mon Sep 19, 16 6:03 am; edited 2 times in total

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A.K.

Since 01 Jul 2006
190 Posts

Stoked



PostThu Sep 15, 16 11:07 pm     Reply with quote

Finally....

I always thought that the "lets not talk about Lyle thing" was a bit backwards. Let us prove our usage so we can get our access.

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chrissmack

Since 08 Jun 2005
515 Posts
portland
Addicted



PostFri Sep 16, 16 5:51 am    for the short attention spans Reply with quote

Commissioner Sauter said "There has been interest in doing something to solve this issue by both the railroad and Forest Service in the recent meetings. But I would appreciate getting public comment and proof of community interest and support to bring back to the meetings with the Rail Road and Forest Service.” Commissioner Sauter is very interested in gaining permanent, safe, and legal access to the sandbar, since access points are so limited"


i.e. pack the room to show that there is interest and you support it

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forrest

Since 21 Jun 2005
4329 Posts
Hood River
Hick

CGKA Member


PostFri Sep 16, 16 7:40 am     Reply with quote

Back in the fall of 2009 I got a discussion setup with key Stakeholders to get the process of approved access started. The stakeholders where:

    Washington Utilities and Transportation Commission - Public Safety, Railroad Safety Supervisor
    BNSF
    WSDOT
    USFS
    Gorge Commission
    Klickitat County Commissioner Sauter
    Yakama Nation (No representative was in attendance)
    CGKA


We met at the Lyle Lions Club Community Building on Nov 25, 2009. All the Stakeholders were there. We even had a mediator who specialized in negotiating these types of things. We pushed hard on all the Stakeholders to convey the message that this was an inevitable reality, and that we needed to establish safe access to the Klickitat delta.

Within 10 or so minutes of discussion a statement was made that all Stakeholders would have to commit to providing resources to solve this problem. The discussion then turned to each individual stakeholder, given them a chance to give a verbal commitment and comment.

First was the UTC, and they spoke that access needed to be improved for safety reasons, and that they would fully support the project. Second was BNSF, with an overwhelmingly positive response. Not only did they support providing access, but they saw it necessary. By this time the hair on my arms started to stand up because it seemed like we were in a really strong position to make progress on this issue. Around the room we got nothing but positive commitments from all. Until we got to WDOT. The simply just said no, they didn't have any resources to build a parking lot on the north side of highway 14. And just like that, the conversation shifted to a more negative tone.

We came out of the meeting in dire fear that we'd kicked a hornet's nest, and prosecution for trespass was going to ramp up. While we have no evidence or data, I eventually came to believe that due to the efforts of reaching out with the stakeholders proactively, we were able to present an organized enough front, and present a unified message to kiteboarders who use the Klickitat delta, that they reduced the number of prosecution of trespass in that area.

I really hope there is more success this time around, the community of Lyle and Klickitat County deserve legal access to, and recognition of, the asset the Klickitat delta represents.

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Singlemalt

Since 21 Jun 2015
460 Posts
White Salmon
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PostFri Sep 16, 16 7:56 am    Underpass? Reply with quote

Seems like a pedestrian activated cross walk, a reduced speed zone on Hiway 14, and a gated crossing of the rail road, would be much cheaper than a tunneling project.

Marine Drive added several cross walks with flashing lights for bikers, runners and walkers.

Once over the tracks, the path way could be easily improved with some stairs and a better path layout.

I'll make the meeting.

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Sella

Since 21 Apr 2007
1794 Posts
Doin' The Dalles
FLY'IN HIGH PIE GUY



PostFri Sep 16, 16 9:14 am     Reply with quote

Cool. Thanks Gnac. See you there.

Wednesday, September 28th 7:00 PM Lyle Lions Club. 503 Lewis and Clark Hwy.

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Justsmile

Since 20 Jul 2009
1523 Posts
Not Portland
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PostFri Sep 16, 16 10:05 am     Reply with quote

i will be there for the support!! rendezvous with SELLA!!!
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Kmun

Since 05 Jul 2009
250 Posts

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PostFri Sep 16, 16 11:35 am     Reply with quote

Parking Lot Cost:
1. What level of parking area improvement was considered too costly?
2. Was the proposal to be simple gravel or black top?

Crossing Gate Costs:
3. Aren't crossing gates crazy expensive?
4. Didn't Bingen have a big problem with these costs?
5. Does a active gate force the need for a Dougs Beach type huge & costly fence (eye sore)?

Under vs Over
4. Lyle Crossing: It's been years since I been there, but remember questioning this "Crossing the Track" problem with a crazy solution. Is it feasible to devise an under the bridge path via fixing a iron catwalk to the concrete wall of the bridge abutment along with suspension from the above trestle?
5. Is this more expensive than an active gate?
6. Which approach lowers pedestrian at fault Rail Road liability?
7. Would people still take the direct path and poach over the tracks without adding the fence eye sores of White Salmon Sandbar and Dougs Beach?

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gnac

Since 05 Sep 2014
66 Posts
Husum
 



PostMon Sep 19, 16 6:04 am     Reply with quote

Reminder:

Wednesday, September 28th 7:00 PM Lyle Lions Club. 503 Lewis and Clark Hwy.

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cgka

Since 18 Jul 2006
278 Posts

Obsessed



PostMon Sep 19, 16 3:40 pm     Reply with quote

PLEASE READ!!!!!


DO NOT ATTEND THIS MEETING WITHOUT FIRST READING ALL OF THE BELOW DETAILS AS DESCRIBED FROM A PREVIOUS MEETING BETWEEN THE RAILROAD AND CGKA REPS.
Remember, this a public forum meeting, not a Trump Rally. How each and all of you act and react is how the general public will perceive the kiteboarding community to be.
We are all passionate, intelligent and motivated stakeholders in this location, so the better everyone acts and speaks the better of a cardholder we as a sport retain in this situation if any possible developments can occur.
Educated and respectful comments beget educated and respectful replies and changes.
*We say this only as a side note, in that historically some people have attended meetings and lost their temper when speaking publicly after realizing that rapid decisions were not being made at that specific meeting and that kiteboarding did not actually represent as a stronger financial stakehold in the general population community.

ADDITIONAL SIDE NOTE :
The Lyle Sandbar (as we call it) is not actually in Lyle. It is outside of their city limits, so no matter how badly they might want to take positive action on this as a city, it is outside of their jurisdiction.
This also then relates to costs for any projects and who would both undertake those projects and pay for those projects.
Stakebolders that may be in attendance :
Road Crossing- WSDOT - Speed limit zoning change and cross walk/light installation on a state highway.
Parking - Klick County and USFS - Parking lot development and maintenance.
Rail Crossing - BNSF, USFS and Klick County - Ped access under bridge development (remember water levels fluctuate here big time)
Actual Sandbar Designation as a recreational location
River Keepers - We are not high on their buddy list of organizations as they would prefer that any and all river mouth areas remain undisturbed for fish habitat and bird nesting sanctuary, with no recreational sports interference.
Gorge Commission - They have a say over most anything that happens along the Columbia River. In the long run, this is a plus for all, but can be a challenge for any change.

ONCE YOU KNOW ALL OF THE ABOVE AND BELOW LISTED DETAILS, YOU ARE THEN PREPARED AND READY TO ATTEND THIS MEETING WITH OPEN EARS AND WELL SPOKEN WORDS.


forrest wrote:
Back in the fall of 2009 I got a discussion setup with key Stakeholders to get the process of approved access started. The stakeholders where:

    Washington Utilities and Transportation Commission - Public Safety, Railroad Safety Supervisor
    BNSF
    WSDOT
    USFS
    Gorge Commission
    Klickitat County Commissioner Sauter
    Yakama Nation (No representative was in attendance)
    CGKA


We met at the Lyle Lions Club Community Building on Nov 25, 2009. All the Stakeholders were there. We even had a mediator who specialized in negotiating these types of things. We pushed hard on all the Stakeholders to convey the message that this was an inevitable reality, and that we needed to establish safe access to the Klickitat delta.

Within 10 or so minutes of discussion a statement was made that all Stakeholders would have to commit to providing resources to solve this problem. The discussion then turned to each individual stakeholder, given them a chance to give a verbal commitment and comment.

First was the UTC, and they spoke that access needed to be improved for safety reasons, and that they would fully support the project. Second was BNSF, with an overwhelmingly positive response. Not only did they support providing access, but they saw it necessary. By this time the hair on my arms started to stand up because it seemed like we were in a really strong position to make progress on this issue. Around the room we got nothing but positive commitments from all. Until we got to WDOT. The simply just said no, they didn't have any resources to build a parking lot on the north side of highway 14. And just like that, the conversation shifted to a more negative tone.

We came out of the meeting in dire fear that we'd kicked a hornet's nest, and prosecution for trespass was going to ramp up. While we have no evidence or data, I eventually came to believe that due to the efforts of reaching out with the stakeholders proactively, we were able to present an organized enough front, and present a unified message to kiteboarders who use the Klickitat delta, that they reduced the number of prosecution of trespass in that area.

I really hope there is more success this time around, the community of Lyle and Klickitat County deserve legal access to, and recognition of, the asset the Klickitat delta represents.

_________________
[b:13763ca0d3]The CGKA is your advocate for Kiteboarding in the Gorge! [i:13763ca0d3] Join now: [/i:13763ca0d3]GorgeKiter.com/join[/b:13763ca0d3]

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user124

Since 02 Aug 2012
390 Posts
Portland
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PostMon Sep 19, 16 4:03 pm     Reply with quote

Money talks, so I wonder if CGKA could play a role in raising funds to contribute to specific aspects of the project? Perhaps with a model similar to what CGWA has done with Swell City?

I maintain my CGKA membership but I'd happily contribute more to be earmarked for specific projects such as Lyle. Maybe other vested interests such as local shops or kite related industries could be convinced to match private donations? It would also help if CGKA was a designated 501c3 so contributions could be tax deductible.

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cgka

Since 18 Jul 2006
278 Posts

Obsessed



PostTue Sep 20, 16 10:42 am     Reply with quote

$$:
- We would love to have the benefit of $200K from a railroad legal settlement , but alas, we do not have that luxury. Definitely was a great accomplishment via the CGWA.

Designating actual land for use :
- The sandspit actually does not exist as a landmass large enough to qualify as useable land (it was only recently created, and is below the highwater level). These characteristics deny it the ability to be owned, zoned or developed, but these are also facts to be re-determined at the meeting.

501C3 :
Yup, we are working on it (yes, truly). During the Gov't shutdown 3-4(?) years ago, the government was good enough to have cashed our application check, but not good enough to have not lost our paperwork. After years of struggle, we now have a financial accounting firm working for us and pursuing this federal non-profit designation.




user124 wrote:
Money talks, so I wonder if CGKA could play a role in raising funds to contribute to specific aspects of the project? Perhaps with a model similar to what CGWA has done with Swell City?

I maintain my CGKA membership but I'd happily contribute more to be earmarked for specific projects such as Lyle. Maybe other vested interests such as local shops or kite related industries could be convinced to match private donations? It would also help if CGKA was a designated 501c3 so contributions could be tax deductible.
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[b:13763ca0d3]The CGKA is your advocate for Kiteboarding in the Gorge! [i:13763ca0d3] Join now: [/i:13763ca0d3]GorgeKiter.com/join[/b:13763ca0d3]

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cgka

Since 18 Jul 2006
278 Posts

Obsessed



PostThu Sep 22, 16 9:34 pm     Reply with quote

Meeting update :

Today, Pepi (CGKA Prez) had he opportunity to have a phone conversation with Klickitat County Commissioner, David Sauter, regarding the meeting next week to discuss the Lyle Sandbar.
It appears that there is a combination of positive circumstances occurring which have motivated David to spearhead a revival of the discussions to find a way to make the Sandbar legally accessible and establish the location as a legitimate recreation access location for users of any interest (kite, fish, sun, swim, etc....).
For access, they are focussing on finding a solution for making a pedestrian accessway under the roadway and bridge. This avoids a ton of obstacles in regards to highway and railway crossings.
For parking, they are working towards a solution with the Forest Service and WSDOT.
All of this will definitely cost a buttload of money, but as David expressed to Pepi, where there is a will, there is a way, and both the Railroad as well as certain Washington Senators , have offered suggestions and assistance for seeking special grant funding options.

Considering all of the challenges the CGKA initially faced in meeting with the Railroad representatives, the above details are great to hear.
BUT, although this is a good start, there are still many, many more challenges ahead.

Which leads us to next weeks meeting. At this meeting the Commission wants to see what kind of public motivation and support there is for them to take on this sort of a challenge. Are there enough water access users to justify the time, effort and financial investment it would take to make this water access legal and pedestrian friendly?
Can all of the users get along peacefully and safely?
Would this be more than just a beneficial recreational opportunity for the town of Lyle?
Would this possibly bring in more foot traffic for the local small businesses, and what could motivate Sandbar visitors to travel the additional 200 yards east past the sandbar, to visit the historic little town of Lyle?

Just wanted to drop a little info update and inside perspective on this upcoming meeting.

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lewmt

Since 04 Aug 2010
182 Posts
MT
Stoked



PostFri Sep 23, 16 6:23 am     Reply with quote

There are a bunch of kiters in MT, ID, UT etc that would love to show support for this but obviously can't come to the meeting. Would it be helpful for us to write in & who do we send written support to?

Thanks everyone there for all your effort!!!

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ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1470 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster



PostFri Sep 23, 16 7:36 am     Reply with quote

I started a petition to collect signatures on gopetition.com.

I'm not good at writing petitions - I titled it "Provide access to Lyle Sandbar".
If someone wants to add a paragraph or 2 about why the access would be good for the local towns - please PM me with that or post it here.

If you sign the petition please keep your comments short and positive - I'll submit the petition at the meeting.

Here's the petition - https://www.gopetition.com/petitions/provide-access-to-the-lyle-sandbar.html

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cgka

Since 18 Jul 2006
278 Posts

Obsessed



PostFri Sep 23, 16 8:49 am     Reply with quote

We are working on an appropriate email address for sending emails in support of this possible access improvement.
For now, the best email we have is - bocc@klickitatcounty.org

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D

Since 18 Apr 2015
56 Posts
Hood River
 

CGKA Member


PostSun Sep 25, 16 6:38 am     Reply with quote

Anyone talk to the Lyle Hotel owners? Or Hood River Hotel owners? Or anyone else that has insight into what increased kiting traffic does to a struggling economy (Lyle)? How much does the port of hood river make off parking passes each year? It might also be a good idea to reach out to the school board and see if we can get a notice of the meeting on their billboard. Lyle's economy is virtually nonexistent so any spin on increased revenue will surely interest folks. 2cents!

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