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Watch out for a couple fishing at Rufus
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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bill77i83

Since 09 Aug 2014
3 Posts

Kook



PostThu Aug 21, 14 9:44 am    Watch out for a couple fishing at Rufus Reply with quote

If you see an older couple fishing off the east cove at Rufus I’d suggest you be extra careful launching and landing as the following happened on Wednesday…

The last couple days have been awesome at Rufus and both days there has been an older couple fishing off the northeast edge of the cove with chairs setup facing the water. I know it has been pointed out to them that they are sitting in a rather dangerous spot as kites are launching and landing just upwind of them. However that spot is where they want to fish and so folks were launching and landing all around them and trying to be careful. On Wednesday I was helping someone launch their kite upwind of the couple. I got the signal, released the kite but the kite never really got airborne and it drifted downwind and landed back down on its wing tip and brushed the woman who was fishing. It was not a major impact by any means and there was no line entanglement but still it was a scary moment. I ran over quickly and grabbed the leading edge of the kite to get it back under control and saw the woman had grabbed the fabric of the kite with her left hand. Just as I grabbed the kite she reached behind her with her right hand and pulled out her fishing knife. I was not a real big knife but big enough to do some damage. My first though was that she was trying to protect herself and was going to use the knife to free herself if she became entangled. I thought she might take a stab at the kite and then I saw that the blade was pointed in my direction and she had a very angry/crazed look on her face. She started ranting at me so now I’m wondering if she’s going to take a swipe at me. I yelled at her to drop the knife which she did and I walked the kite back upwind. Thankfully the incident itself ended there. I helped the kiter launch his kite, collected my thoughts and then headed out for a session myself – which was great. The couple went back to fishing in their spot.

As you can imagine there were lots of kiters around and lots of folks saw the knife come out. One person suggested I call 911 but I didn’t think that would end well so I decided to let things cool down go for a session and then attempt to speak to the woman about why she pulled out the knife and why they were fishing there in the first place. When I got back to the beach after about an hour on the water two park rangers were speaking to the couple. Apparently one of the rangers had been doing a walk thru and someone who saw the incident told them about the knife-wielding fisherman. The rangers spoke to the couple for quite a while. I spoke to the park rangers afterwards and them were very cool – they realized the fishermen were camped out in a bad spot and suggested if there was any further trouble to call law enforcement. I wanted to speak to the couple and the rangers agreed that might help so I went over and spent quite some time talking to the couple to try to defuse the whole situation but also to make sure she knew that I felt threatened and it was not cool to pull out her fishing knife in that way.

At first they were not very interested in talking and still angry but things gradually calmed down as we talked. They are very aware that they were in a dangerous spot and have been asked to move or leave before. I heard from the woman that she has some sort of disability and can’t walk very far and this spot is one of only a couple in the gorge that she can easily access. I also heard how that particular spot where they setup their chairs was the best spot to fish although they didn’t appear to have caught much. The woman told me that was the third time they had been hit with a kite and that kiters had been rude to them. I explained why kiters launch at the cove and that they were sitting in dangerous spot and folks were concerned for their safety – I suggested that even if they moved to their right (south) that would be better than where they were but was told the fishing is not good farther inside. The woman told me she deployed the knife to protect herself from the kite and lines as someone had previously told her the lines “could take her head off”. She said she did not intend to threaten me. I told her she had threatened me, intentionally or not, and that she should not pull the knife again and I could have very easily called 911 and there were lots of witnesses. We talked some more and the conversation ended calmly.

Anyway they seemed defiant and willing to put themselves in harms way because they have the right to fish wherever they want. Rational or not, that was their mindset.
So, if you are at Rufus and see a couple fishing be extra careful for their protection and yours! Hopefully they will decide to fish in a safer spot but who knows.

Bill D

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chrissmack

Since 08 Jun 2005
515 Posts
portland
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PostThu Aug 21, 14 10:22 am    Re: Watch out for a couple fishing at Rufus Reply with quote

bill77i83 wrote:
they seemed defiant and willing to put themselves in harms way
Bill D



Wrong.

Kiters launching and landing upwind of them are putting them in harms way.

rufus is a big place. go launch and land somewhere else.

and when she Ginsu's a kite that hits her, it's the kiter's Airtime bill, not hers.

rant off.

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knotwindy

Since 25 Sep 2011
598 Posts

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PostThu Aug 21, 14 12:01 pm     Reply with quote

Well, maybe theoretically and legally but
If there are 25 people doing dangerous things around you and you CHOOSE to stay, you are contributing to the danger and it becomes to some degree your problem as well.

oh yea, rant off

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PDXF

Since 10 Sep 2008
116 Posts

Stoked



PostThu Aug 21, 14 12:10 pm     Reply with quote

Mine goes to eleven...

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chrissmack

Since 08 Jun 2005
515 Posts
portland
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PostThu Aug 21, 14 1:00 pm     Reply with quote

knotwindy wrote:
Well, maybe theoretically and legally but
If there are 25 people doing dangerous things around you and you CHOOSE to stay, you are contributing to the danger and it becomes to some degree your problem as well.

oh yea, rant off


i'm going with the assumption that fisherchick is already there (usually the case) and gets swarmed by kiters.

this is the part where you stay the hell away from them.

if they pull up and cast lines in the middle of rufus kite mayhem, then i agree with you.

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jerp

Since 22 Feb 2013
450 Posts

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PostThu Aug 21, 14 1:10 pm     Reply with quote

If someone is willing to pull a knife the chances are the situation will never be diffused. Where kiters are launching and landing kites has nothing to do with the fact she brandished a weapon, I would have called the cops.

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dangler

Since 26 Feb 2006
1742 Posts
WINDY SPOTS
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PostThu Aug 21, 14 1:20 pm    BRANDISHING? Reply with quote

A fisherman (fisherwoman just don't sound right. Fishwife?) with a knife is not unusual. A fisherman with a gun is another matter. Like a Statie once said to me after someone once called the cops on me for "cutting them off" ; "you should hear some of the stories those fisherman come up with, and those bastards are ARMED!"
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JonMalmberg

Since 15 Aug 2011
340 Posts

Obsessed



PostThu Aug 21, 14 1:42 pm     Reply with quote

There were initially not there when I launched in my usual drift fashion on Saturday. But when I came back in about two hours later they were set up right on the point. I timed my coming in when they did not have lines out and did my usual zip in six inches from the point, and release deployment style landing. They did not appear pleased with that move, but I just shrugged my shoulders and went about my usual landing proceedure without a word exchanged. Upon heading back out, I just gave them a wide berth and they were gone when I got back in after my second session. Point being, they put themselves into the middle of that mess.

On Tuesday we came out for the late evening session and they were there when we launched, but gone when we came in at sunset... I had zero issues with them and just gave them the appropriate space. At no point did I see any brandished knives, but they both had that crazed cracker look going on for sure.

Bams

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TonyROD

Since 30 Apr 2014
22 Posts

 



PostThu Aug 21, 14 1:51 pm    Re: Watch out for a couple fishing at Rufus Reply with quote

chrissmack wrote:
bill77i83 wrote:
they seemed defiant and willing to put themselves in harms way
Bill D



Wrong.

Kiters launching and landing upwind of them are putting them in harms way.

rufus is a big place. go launch and land somewhere else.

and when she Ginsu's a kite that hits her, it's the kiter's Airtime bill, not hers.

rant off.


I agree with Chrissmack...
Use proper judgment - go kite somewhere else..!!!
What happened can obviously happen at any other place.
Man or women - give them there space. Your only making yourself and kiting look bad by crowding there space.

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Wind Slither

Since 04 Mar 2005
2570 Posts
The 503
METAL



PostThu Aug 21, 14 4:42 pm    Re: Watch out for a couple fishing at Rufus Reply with quote

bill77i83 wrote:
I thought she might take a stab at the kite and then I saw that the blade was pointed in my direction and she had a very angry/crazed look on her face. She started ranting at me so now I’m wondering if she’s going to take a swipe at me.


Snagglecarpus would be SO proud!

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Gman

Since 11 Feb 2006
4907 Posts
Portland
Unstrapped



PostThu Aug 21, 14 9:47 pm    Re: Watch out for a couple fishing at Rufus Reply with quote

Wind Slither wrote:
bill77i83 wrote:
I thought she might take a stab at the kite and then I saw that the blade was pointed in my direction and she had a very angry/crazed look on her face. She started ranting at me so now I’m wondering if she’s going to take a swipe at me.


Snagglecarpus would be SO proud!


"I've been fishing on this here beach for 20 years and ain't never caught nothing...
It's all your fault!"

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Go Deep!


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eu2pBpQolKE

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ShiverMeTimbers

Since 26 Feb 2013
381 Posts
Gig Harbor
Obsessed



PostFri Aug 22, 14 7:52 am     Reply with quote

"Crazed Cracker" Laughing

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burner

Since 23 Aug 2014
1 Posts

New Member



PostSat Aug 23, 14 8:32 am    Mental health or substance abuse issues Reply with quote

Bill,

It sounds like you handled this situation very well. I think she was a very difficult person to deal with. I was at Rufus 2 days this week, and this couple were there both days. The first day they weren't there when we launched, but when we came back in they were, so we landed up wind of them to avoid their lines. It was very windy/gusty, and coming in above them made for a much riskier landing - for them and for us. I saw several people go up to advise them that it was a dangerous place to be, but they didn’t seem to care. I have seen this happen several times with local people swimming and playing there, and they usually seem eager to take advice about how to stay safe around kites; this couple did not seem receptive. The second day, they came down and set up while we were rigging. Many people were already out, so they clearly knew they were going to be reproducing a dangerous situation. Again it was very gusty, so I elected to launch in my usual manner, going below the point and below them. I timed it to go when they had both reeled in, but the woman yelled at me that I was stupid, that it wasn't safe for me to launch there, and then cast out over my head to prove her point. Clearly, she wasn't concerned about causing me harm.

Clearly we don’t have any more right to use that area than the fisherman do, but it is unfortunate that they have chosen to fish in an area which puts them and other people at risk. Her assertion that she is handicapped and can't access any other spot on the river is ridiculous. That is a difficult spot to get to, with a steep embankment to climb down, and no easy way to access it. There are many other spots even there at Rufus that are much easier to access; most people fish farther to the West. It may be a great place to catch fish, but I certainly didn’t see them catch any while I was there.

As to Chrissmack’s assertion that - “Kiters launching and landing upwind of them are putting them in harms way. rufus is a big place. go launch and land somewhere else.” - I disagree. The reason Rufus is such a congested launch, is that there is not a lot of area, this is one of the few spots on this section of the river where we can safely launch. There are a lot of other users including windsurfers and fishermen, and it is a popular local swimming hole. Most of us chose that area because it is the safest place to launch and land with no solid objects or people downwind of the launch. Clearly we all have the obligation to try to keep this as safe as possible, and maybe CGKA could help us start a discussion with whoever has authority there over designating separate areas for launching kites, windsurfing and fishing to avoid conflict of interest. Hopefully this would prevent us from being banned from launching there.

After years of experience in the Emergency Room, I suspected when I saw this woman that she has mental health and/or substance abuse issues. In every interaction I witnessed, she was confrontational, and did not appear to be very rational. The fact that she has a weapon makes any interaction with her dangerous. I wouldn’t be surprised if she has other more dangerous weapons, and I think that your advice to be careful in dealing with her is good. This situation will likely continue to escalate if they choose to continue fishing there, and I would recommend calling 911 if she pulls out a weapon again - before she pulls out a gun and starts shooting.

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blowhard

Since 26 Dec 2005
2023 Posts

Windward



PostSat Aug 23, 14 8:45 am    Re: BRANDISHING? Reply with quote

dangler wrote:
A fisherman (fisherwoman just don't sound right. Fishwife?) with a knife is not unusual. A fisherman with a gun is another matter. Like a Statie once said to me after someone once called the cops on me for "cutting them off" ; "you should hear some of the stories those fisherman come up with, and those bastards are ARMED!"


I guess you never heard of ALLIGATOR fishing Cool

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bigjohn

Since 13 Mar 2012
663 Posts

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PostSat Aug 23, 14 11:04 am     Reply with quote

I find this topic to be a precursor towards a long term problem.

Consider the following:
1970's - Indian and non-Indian fisherpeople compete for space
1980's - Add windsurfers into the mix
2000's - start seeing kiters
2014 - knives being pulled on the beach for territory.
2020 - ???? how many more kite surfers will there be?

The fact is, no matter whether you are a fisherperson, windsurfer, or kiter you see your access to Rufus changing, and not for the better.

This issue is only going to become magnified as the quantity of kiters in The Gorge continues to grow.

I have a couple of primary thoughts on the subject:
1) We do not want to get kiting banned in Rufus.
2) As usage increases, the safest launch location at Rufus is the cove. Don't mis-read into this statement. I understand there are a number of safe launch locations at Rufus, however I believe that year round, if I had to pick a single location, I would pick the cove. If things go bad, You/your kite just end up in shallow water. Also, you can always release your kite from the point if nobody is around to catch you (like in the off season when most of you are not kiting here). Lastly, the wind shadow allows for multiple self launch/land options.

Thus, it makes sense to me that a logical step for the kiting community to consider would be for request of better definition at Rufus regarding access and usage.

Now, I recognize that this sort of request is likely to be a double edged sword. In order to gain preferential access at some locations, we would likely be required to give up access to other locations.

However, it seems to me that we are currently on the path towards destruction with either a fisherperson getting hurt by a kite, or a kiter getting hurt by a fisherperson... I would gladly give up some rights today to assure my continued access tomorrow.

I'm curious if others out there have the same opinions?

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drtaamc

Since 24 Jul 2008
118 Posts

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PostMon Aug 25, 14 4:11 pm    Agree With Big John Reply with quote

Big John has the right idea here. We need this location for kiting. Let's face it, there are not that many good launch and landing spots in the gorge, with good wind and water conditions. Rufus happens to be one, if not the best, especially when the wind is up and the swell is going strong. The idea that we should just go somewhere else not an option. We are a legitimate user group with a significant economic impact in the gorge. We need to continue to use our influence to both increase safety while at the same time increase or insure our access to the few good sites for kiteboarding.

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Hein

Since 08 Mar 2005
1313 Posts

Possessed



PostTue Aug 26, 14 6:12 am     Reply with quote

bigjohn wrote:
I'm curious if others out there have the same opinions?


No.

I would prefer the freedom to launch wherever I want while respecting the rights and safety of those around me. It appears to me that most problems occur when there is a herd of newbie kiters who think they 'should' own the place under the guise of "it's not safe to be around kiters."

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