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Gman
Since 11 Feb 2006
4911 Posts
Portland
Unstrapped
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 Fri Dec 15, 06 4:33 pm Any climbers out there |
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Not kiting related - but was thinking about the climbers up there - found this thread on www.cascadeclimbers.com
http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/617693/page/2#Post617693
The poster is sort of a douche but some the responses were interesting - this one give you hope:
Originally Posted By: jonmf76
| jonmf76 wrote: | Am I the only one who finds the whole Mount Hood situation bizarre that not one person has gone all the way up to find these 3 guys because the weather reports don't seem impossible to me?
The reports indicate gusts to 80, which probably means steady 30-50 mph winds, white out, snow loading, etc. But they keep saying no one can get above the 7000 foot level. These are conditions regularly found on Denali.
So why hasn't someone just pushed their way up there with a backpack full of freeze dried beef stroganoff (insert your favorite Mountain House flavor here)?
I wonder if it is the 'rule of the rescuer' that no one proceeds if the rescuer is at heightened risk. In the meantime, these 3 guys are dying because no one will ascend a whopping 3000' to get them some food? Clearly they didn't pack for multiday and are now starving and hypothermic.
It would really suck to hear another James Kim type of story because some beaurocratic agency rule prevented someone from reaching them in time.
Or am I just crazy? I have climbed in these conditions a lot on Denali for a lot longer than 3000' elevation gain and I'm no superhero. |
Nah. Not happening. Not from lack of trying or skill either. Not cause they are volunteers. These are strong, kick assed climbers who want to go get em, that’s why they are there. They want them off of there alive in the worst way. There may have been some teams hit the summit already and we don't know.
Truth be told, you can't stand up in those winds like they are right now. Even when you drop the wind speed down to half that, walking in a straight line and reading a compass will cause 2 things to happen to you. 1) You can't walk a straight line despite what you are thinking cause you will get pushed the direction the wind is heading. 2nd) Reading a compass will expose part of your face to frostbite. Right on your face. I’ve seen it happen more than once.
I once went up in conditions less than these looking for a single person. It was quite the interesting story and somewhat germane to this situation so I’ll tell it.
I get a call at home like 2am from a friend and get a ride up to Timberline with a Sheriff's deputy. As we ride up to the mountain and we’re bullshiting about this or that the weather came up. A climbing buddy of mine had been talking about doing the route same day, I’m musing that I hope my buddy was OK. Deputy says “Whats his name”, uhhh, Mike Lake (posts on Supertopo as Rockermike), I respond, so he radios dispatch and a groggy Mike gets a phone call from a deputy at 3am. Asks him what route he’d done (Steel Cliffs solo), and had he seen anybody, he had, and described everything he saw and exactly where the person was (heading up as Mike was heading down). Turns out that Mike and this guy were the only 2 people on the mountain that day cause a storm was coming in. Mike knew about the weather and thought he could get up and down, which he did. Kid had no clue. Thought Mt Hood was an easy mountain to climb. (which it can be but he was up there in the dead of winter when fierce pacific storms will crap all over your happy face) Dude was some kid from California who didn’t have extensive experience like these guys up there now, but he could afford good gear which he had in spades as it turned out and factors heavily into this tale.
1st thing the deputy did as we get into the parking lot (wind pushing the flakes semi-sideways - @30-40 MPH) was walk over and slim jim the kids car and go through it throughly. Then we walked into the register area and found the climbing paper the kid had filled out. For gear, he had not marked sleeping bag, stove or shovel. 3 key things that the rescuers would be thinking of for days. Various people are all milling around, the weather outside is shit. Somehow later (my memory sucks, it might have been 2 days I don’t know) I wrangle my way onto a team heading where I had thought all along that the kid really is. See, the mountain is really a large area, you can’t walk a straight line and expect that you’ve covered it, you have to grid it out and you’re checking where the hell over to the left and way the hell over to the right and everything in between. Searching is slower than climbing. Anyway, we get organized then jump into snow cats (those of us heading to the farther areas) and off we went. As the cat is pumping up, I’m thinking WTF am I doing here? The F*en driver has his windshield wipers whipping and we can’t see sh*t but white flakes pounding the glass in the storm. I don’t know how he gets us up there but he does a phenomenal job of driving and doesn’t kill us, gets up past to about the Palmer and let’s us out. We almost get blown over shaking the rope and tying it on so we don’t get separated. Wind gusts to 40-50 mph, much less than currently. Maybe you can see 6-10’, if that, but not very well. We walk up the lip of the White River Canyon; I can almost taste it in my mind that the kid was there. We stop every 10-20 steps and blow whistles and yell. Only the howling of the wind replies. I was thinking that I should have been on the slop of the canyon, which is pretty damn steep right there with waist deep snow, but can barely make traction in the conditions on the relatively wind blown ridge. I’ve probably climbed this route on Hood 25 times at that point, but on this trip, I mostly remember just wanting my team and I to be able to get back safely, and I had my doubts about that. So I passed on thrashing through the deep snow on the canyon wall.
Eventually the search dribbles off to nothingness as people need to go back to work and get on with their lives. It is, for all intents and purposes, called off and ended on like day 4. Kid must be dead eh? Day 5 dawns clear and cold. There are 2 of us volunteers still there, no deputies, no helicopters, no news cameras. Kid fuc*king walks right into the Timberline aid station on his own power at about 8 in the morning. We had been so beat the previous day that we’d slept in and were just shaking the cobwebs out of our brains and settling in for a cup of Joe. Shocked the hell out of us.
5 days in a snow cave. He was weak, dehydrated. Most amazing thing I saw was the kid’s feet. He’d bought a new pair of plastic boots (I still owned leather as it was the best I could afford). His feet were almost dead white and wrinkly, like he’d been in a bathtub for an extreme amount of time, but he had NO frostbite. Amazing. His core temp was down, and he was dehydrated, but otherwise he was fine.
The story he told (when the other volunteer, an older fella, got done yelling and screaming at him for endangering everybody’s lives and being a punk asswipe or something like that) was that the weather broke bad as he was just summiting the south side. He’d stumbled down the Hogsback and missed the jog he needed to make to get the Timberline Lodge in his sights. He’d stepped into air where White River Canyon was and did about 2 somersaults and in a dazed and confused state choose to get out the shovel (which he had not marked on his climbing check out), and dug himself a snow cave. The right thing to do.
In talking it over with him, I figure we may have been as close as 15-20 feet away from where he was hunkered down in a cave. He thought he might have heard “something” but he dismissed it as the wind and delusions.
So, my point is 2 fold, where do you want to look for the 2 guys who had gone for help? The rescuers had been cutting for tracks earlier lower down in the obvious places. They could have summited and wandered over Missippi head 7 miles on the other side or so. 2nd) If you could stand up, which you can’t, you’re going to have to crawl to the exact point where this remaining fella is. It is similar to searching for a needle in a haystack as you don’t even really know which route they jumped on. I suspect it’s the left hand North Face Gully. As that route is a basic avalanche chute, and these are perfect avy conditions, who is gonna crawl up it? Ain’t me bubba, not even if my momma herself was crying out for help up there. Sorry Mama! Maybe dropping down off the top could be do able, but you won’t be able to get up there in these conditions unless you’re feeling suicidal.
My story, which was @ 22 or so years ago, we knew which route the dude was on, had a visual confirmation of an exact spot. It was the easiest route on the Mt. We had lots and lots of searchers looking for days. Then the kid walks out on his own after the search is over. It's not that easy like you describe. It's not.
Say a prayer for good weather, believe that everybody up there is doing all they can. Skilled people can always be used, do hitch up, call them and help out.
It’s a grim job, and these are good people. Sometimes it’s just out of your hands.
It just is. Sorry.
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Wyo Kiter
Since 09 Mar 2006
148 Posts
In a VAN, down by the RIVER.
Stoked
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| Fri Dec 15, 06 4:40 pm |
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You cant battle Mother Nature and Natural Selection, The pain will end soon
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jack
Since 12 Mar 2006
214 Posts
Stoked
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| Sat Dec 16, 06 9:27 am |
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"In the meantime, these 3 guys are dying because no one will ascend a whopping 3000' to get them some food? "
wow jonmf you are an idiot, these people are dying because they decided to take a bad risk, one might ask themselves why they didnt check the weather when they departed and then they may have realized there was not much margin of error. they are dying because they fucked up, not because resuers who take time out of their lives and risk their lives to try and help out. not to mention the thousands of dollars speant tyring to rescue folks who took an unecessary risk.
if it so easy why dont you go get them....
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Gman
Since 11 Feb 2006
4911 Posts
Portland
Unstrapped
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| Sat Dec 16, 06 10:16 am |
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| jack wrote: | "In the meantime, these 3 guys are dying because no one will ascend a whopping 3000' to get them some food? "
wow jonmf you are an idiot, these people are dying because they decided to take a bad risk, one might ask themselves why they didnt check the weather when they departed and then they may have realized there was not much margin of error. they are dying because they fucked up, not because resuers who take time out of their lives and risk their lives to try and help out. not to mention the thousands of dollars speant tyring to rescue folks who took an unecessary risk.
if it so easy why dont you go get them.... |
Totally Agree. Was thinking exactly these thoughts - I drove up to Seattle last Thursday (when these guys took off) and the cloud level was sitting above Mt. Ranier for about 8hrs and then the next series of storms moved in. Can't imagine folks who have been climbing for ten years not checking the weather but also can't imagine looking at the satellite with all that shit bearing down and still electing to go. I know one of the guys was preparing for an everest trip and maybe he figured like dipshit Jonmf that "ascending a whopping 3000'" is no big deal in any conditions on puny Mt. Hood.
Still very, very sad.
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lance_k
Since 04 May 2005
565 Posts
Hood River
Photographer
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| Sat Dec 16, 06 1:13 pm |
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[quote="Gman"] | jack wrote: | | maybe he figured..."ascending a whopping 3000'" is no big deal in any conditions on puny Mt. Hood. . |
i totally took the volcanos for puny toys after living and climbing the rockies and tetons. nearly cost me a night out on st helens. i couldn't believe it. after an easy summit/decent we became totally disorented and dehydrated... such an ass i was.
never take the mountains/mother nature for granted- lesson learned.
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www.lancekoudele.com |
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pacifichigh
Since 11 May 2005
1004 Posts
ATX
Texan
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| Sat Dec 16, 06 5:27 pm |
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The first rule of any rescue is not to create more victims. Topping out in the mountains is only the half-way point. People have been busting their tails to do everything in their power to find those boys. They are dealing with -20 wind chill & white out conditions, it doesn't matter if you are talking the Oregon Cascades, Denali, or the Himilaya's if you can't see & it's that cold!
Mt. Hood (& all of the cascades for that matter) is like a big thumb sticking up, and its the first real obstacle facing storms rolling down from the gulf of alaska & the pacific.
The clock is ticking for those boys, lets hope they find them tomorrow.
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NateDogg
Since 05 Mar 2005
627 Posts
I caught your mom on
cineaptic.com
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| Sat Dec 16, 06 7:47 pm |
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I was up on Hood at Meadows on Friday and Saturday. Friday was absolutely insane as far as wind and heavy snow, but we still could hear the C-130 circling the mountain.
Today was a different story, with overcast and pretty much unlimited visibility. At one point, when we were at the upper lip of lower heather and could get a good look at the entire south slope, I counted three blackhawks AND the C-130 still circling. A couple times the hawks would get ultra close, but obviously to no avail yet.
My point here is, despite some pretty bleak outlooks, everyone be assured that those pilots, recuers and everyone else involved are working their asses off to get those guys down, and they all definitely have my respect.
Word on the mountain is the C-130 is going to take advantage of the favorable weather (It still looks extremely windy at the summit) and continue scanning through the night. Hopefully we'll wake up to some good news
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Pepi
Since 16 Jun 2006
1831 Posts
Pure Stoke Sports
Shop Owner
CGKA Member
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| Sat Dec 16, 06 8:55 pm |
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We had one of the lost climbers buddy in the shop today, along with a new crew of S&R climbers from N.Carolina.
They were only able to make it up to around 7,700' today. Apparently the snow conditions are even worse then before. Clear skies, but super hard base layer of ice with 3-4' of styrofoam, loose snow on top, causing constant sluff slides and avalanches.
From what these guys have been telling us, it's been next to impossible to get up any higher on the mountain more than 5-6000' feet.
Hood is definitely a freak of nature mountain with the raging winds and jagged terrain.
It's been amazing how many Search and Rescue teams have been flying into town these past 3-4 days. Our shop has been getting cleaned out of most of our technical climbing gear due to these guys literally dropping what they were doing, wherever they were, getting on a plane and flying straight out to Portland, dropping by Hood River for supplies and then reporting directly to the base of operations at Cooper Spur to join in on the searches.
I was pretty startled by the amount of confidence these guys have in the possibilities of still locating a live body. Their's definitely no evidence that anyone has been holding back or trying to play it too conservative up there, especially when many of the searchers are personal climbing friends of the lost climbers.
Pepi
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Pure Stoke Sports
Hood River, OR
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hood-River-OR/2nd-Wind-Sports/35891485558?ref=mf
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luke
Since 06 Jul 2005
399 Posts
Obsessed
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| Sun Dec 17, 06 8:31 am |
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All of the rescuers are HARD CORE. They all understand the risks involved with mountain climbing and mountain rescue. And they accept it. In these situations they understand that life and death go hand in hand (and the missing climbers knew that before leaving their car 10 days ago). The rescuers on the snow were up just below the summit on the south side and maybe 2,000 feet below it on the north side on Saturday. Avalanche conditions right off the summit were high yesterday. That is what is slowing everything down. A rescuer can walk for days in whiteout, 80knot winds (and they have been). But it is the avalanche danger that limits what they will do. Too unpredictable.
Snowkiting above Timberline was good on Saturday. The strong west winds had switched over to easterlys at about 20knots. No wind today. So I am heading out for a tour. For those of you that are into mountains and kiting (this is a kite site right) give me a shout. Last year I organized 2 snowkite trips (Pakistan Himalayas and St. Elias range in Alaska) that were incredible. This year we are going to Norway in April. First week at the world famous snowkite location Hardangervidda and the second week aboard a 100 year old sailboat. We plan to sail up the fjords and snowkite above them. It should be good!! We are looking for more people to make it a grand time.
Have FUN. In whatever YOU do. 
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Mark
Since 20 Jun 2005
3678 Posts
I need my fix because I'm a
Naishaholic
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| Sun Dec 17, 06 10:29 am |
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$5 gets you a rental locator. Sure makes finding you alot easier!
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Cleverly disguised as an adult...
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registered
Since 12 Jul 2005
1319 Posts
tsunami
Sandbagger
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| Thu Dec 21, 06 3:14 pm |
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Why did these dudes not have a mlu( mountain locator unit) or three????
They could have been found in hours. One out of three would have likely worked.
Poor everyone involved.
Why do mountaineers use ropes???
...to keep the sensible ones from going home.... 
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Gman
Since 11 Feb 2006
4911 Posts
Portland
Unstrapped
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NateDogg
Since 05 Mar 2005
627 Posts
I caught your mom on
cineaptic.com
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| Thu Dec 21, 06 3:47 pm |
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That tiered section directly below cathedral is insane! Are those steps a result of avalanches, glacial movement or the terrain of the mountain itself?
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Gman
Since 11 Feb 2006
4911 Posts
Portland
Unstrapped
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| Thu Dec 21, 06 4:08 pm |
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| Huge eat a greyhound bus sized crevasses
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