Winter time training for beginner

Nalu · Since 12 Nov 2013 3 Posts Kook

Hi all-

I am interested in starting to kite and would like to start training on a kite this winter and be prepared for spring or other time when I could get a few lessons.

Here's my background... I've always been an athletic outdoor guy with a lot of the typical NW hobbies. Mt. Biking, fairly hardcore kayaking for a long time, advanced/expert snowboarder, Divemaster for SCUBA, surfer, etc. I am very self sufficient, including whitewater kayaking, and scuba diving solo. I'm a bigger guy at about 240 lbs. I pick up everything pretty quick, but that is usually because of a lot of preparation prior to "going for it".

My reason to get into kiting is primarily because of interest in a new pursuit, and the great proximity I have to consistent wind. I live in Portland, but have a beach house on the Oregon Coast at Beverly Beach. Consistent NW wind during the summer, and of course Southerlies in the winter. With a 5 year old son, I believe kiting will be an excellent all around sport for us to grow with.

So... my question is this.... I would like to purchase the best set up I can that won't be tossed away real quick. The reading I have done leads me to a larger training kite such as the HQ Scout in 4m as being something that I could train with (being that I am fairly stout) but would also allow me some introductory land boarding on the beach, or snow kiting. We fly stunt kites at the beach already, so the basics of wind, control, etc. are already there, but I have not flown a foil.

I don't plan on trying to self-teach myself kite boarding, I just would like to get as proficient as possible with the kite so that by the time I get ready for lessons I can pay better attention to details about safety, best practices, etc.

Is the HQ Scout a good fit for this, or would people suggest something else? I'm open to all suggestions, but I always tend to go with something that is a little more advanced at the start as opposed to the most basic.

Sasquatch · Since 09 Mar 2005 2102 Posts PNW Bigfoot

Sure a 4 meter is probably good enough for someone of your size. . . but you can learn the same stuff with a 2 meter, it's probably cheaper, and your 5 year old son can use it and won't get blown away relative to a 4 meter kite.

PM "Windian" and offer to buy him some brews and a burger and milk his mind. He lives in and or around Newport and shreads the south jetty at Newport.

Fly that thing/trainer so you can fly it without looking at it and know where its been and where its going.

Not that I have done much snowkiting, but I don't think many snowkiters kite on a 4 meter, especially someone of your weight--that's some strong wind.

If your looking to save $ and not throw it away. Maybe you should get a RPM or whoever makes an inflatable 4.5m or a 5m. With your weight and your son's age you're most likely not going to be able to share a kite quiver till he is mid teens or older.

What a cool dad you are to share such a cool sport with your son. Never kited Beverly, but love the reefs and setting. I've always gone to the south jetty.

Welcome to the sport.

My 3 cents.

user124 · Since 02 Aug 2012 391 Posts Portland Obsessed

Good advice from Sasquatch.

That 4M kite you mentioned seems like a waste. A trainer kite is a good place to start, but if you've flown stunt kites you probably won't use it more than a few hours before you get bored. I'd go for a cheap 2 line 2M foil, get the hang of that and then move on to lessons.

With your background you will progress most quickly by getting into the water with a full size kite and a board (under the supervision of a qualified instructor of course). It's really pretty easy to fly a 2 or even 4 line kite standing on the ground with no distractions. The hard part is getting to the point where you can fly the kite while dealing with swell/waves, other kiters, obstacles and still being able to get your board on and get up riding.

Dern · Since 11 Jul 2010 545 Posts Vancouver, WA Addicted

If you've flown stunt kites plenty, then a 2 line trainer foil will be a huge waste. It's essentially the same thing. Heck, the stunt kites can be flown more aggressively and are much faster then the foil. The only difference is you have a bar connecting the two stunt kite lines.

The next step up for you will be flight time with a kite that has a power/depower function (sheeting the bar in and out) and enough power that it will give you a taste of the force that a full size kite brings to the table.

Sasquatch's idea of getting a small 4-5m inflatable, real kite would be the ideal next step, I think. For you, that's a trainer kite. For your son, that's... maybe too much power, not sure really! I have seen some real little dudes out in the gorge on 4m Rally, RPM, etc. A real kite will require a harness, though. But you can grab one of those pretty easily.

Sasquatch · Since 09 Mar 2005 2102 Posts PNW Bigfoot

For your size in all likelihood your never going to need to fly a 5m inflatable unless you are in winds like yesterday out at Rooster, or early Spring (Hood River or East out to 3 mile) conditions when the river current is super strong (opposing forces increases your power/apparent wind speed) or the strongest of summer ocean winds way down south (pistol river and maybe Florence) or crazy southern winter storms on the ocean (could be anywhere).

So if you're 240 lbs, add probably another 10-15 lbs with wetsuit, harness and water weight (wet gear).

I'm saying your never need a 4/5m, more like a 7m for your smallest kite. Unless of course you plan on some landboarding and or you want to have your son be able to share in your kite quiver.

Buy used, because your going to crash it for sure.

Nalu · Since 12 Nov 2013 3 Posts Kook

Thank you all for the input. I'm certainly not above buying used, in fact, I'm a big fan of buying quality used gear.

So, my thought process on getting a big enough kite for traction was that I have no doubt that it will not take long that I will want to do more than just hold the kite. I would see most likely getting a land board to stand on the beach with. Something that I could at least get some motion with. It's a 5 minute walk to the State Park and Beverly Beach from my house, so it is basically a no brainer to fly regularly.

I live in Portland, but don't actually see myself spending a huge amount of time right now in the Gorge. I run a charter boat out of Depoe Bay during the summer on weekends so I'm at the coast about half time all summer. Ultimately, I am finding things that fit well so that my son and soon to be born daughter always have killer things to do when we are at the beach house, but we'll have good, fairly compact traveling gear for road trips too.

I'm a full on water dog, so my kids are going to grow with the expectation that these are the things family's do. I love learning a new sport and haven't done so in awhile, so looking forward to this. So many sports, so little time.....

dhannf · Since 29 Nov 2010 42 Posts

I frequently use a 3-3.5 meter 3 line trainer for practice and doing downwinders on a land board. I am about 275, and get enough pull from the kites in about 13mph or better. I have a HQ hydra 350 and a HQ Rush 300. I also have a slingshot B2, I would definitely recommend the B2 if your going to have your son fly it but you'll probably need 17mph to get moving on a land board with a 2 meter and you'd be strictly down wind.

Nak · Tue Nov 12, 13 11:54 pm

macgruber · Since 06 Dec 2011 490 Posts SE PDX volcano Obsessed

I land board with my daughters (9,12) at our manzanita rental house. We have cheap 1.2 and 2.5 foils (250 together off ebay). I think it really jump started my learning as I could ride upwind on my 3 day lesson in Maui. Floras or Jones are way better to learn at than hood river.i got a billabong 5/4/3 at The Gorge House for around 150, I wear 3 mil booties and a promotion beanie under a helmet which i think is way less restrictive than a hooded suit. Now I use my 6m inflatable(I'm 175) and I can rip upwind on the land board. I can't imagine my daughters using anything more than a 4m even in light winds. Windance has some good used kites, a 4m 2012 Naish Ride with bar for $500. I could certainly ride that on the landboard and would have liked to have it a few days this fall at Rooster. I got my land boards off craigslist 2 for $200 used. You won't want the brakes on.

Slappysan · Since 13 Jun 2012 309 Posts Obsessed

I would consider the Ozone Ignition as a good pickup for you as you can get lots of kite handling practice with it and then it'll be a great kite for the kids.

Nalu · Since 12 Nov 2013 3 Posts Kook

Sella · Wed Nov 13, 13 11:02 am

Stellar advice in this thread and once you're able to get outside the shore break and stay updwind....you'll better understand where Nak is coming from.

Buying a used (any brand) bridled 4-line inflatable 6m-7m kite and harness and go play in no wind. Same cost as a trainer but it will help teach you how to correctly inflate, rig, launch, fly and land a kite to kiteboard plus it's a kite you can use on the water in the future. A 2-line trainer kite will teach you about the wind window and then 15 minutes later extreme boredom will set in. A trainer could be good for your 5 year old to play but he is many years away from actual kiteboarding so at this stage of the game it's not a family thing.....yet. Wink

Buying a beginner How to Kiteboard dvd is another option to accelerate your learning curve or just Youtube your area of interest etc. Your location is ideal so spend the time becoming comfortable with flying the 4-line in a wide open area in just a few knots of wind smoothly and understanding how sheeting in/out impacts your turning, power etc...etc. Once you're able to keep the kite flying in the air using the power stroke and leverage of your weight against your harness the Idea

will turn on for you.

Fun sport and very easy once you get the basics down which will help make your future lessons immensely more enjoyable and productive. Good luck and have fun.

BigR · Since 05 Jul 2005 372 Posts White Salmon Obsessed

exactly what sella said..........

bulae99 · Since 12 Jul 2006 1691 Posts I give out bad advice.

When I teach people to kite I start by looking at the skills they have with a 2 line foil. The reason I do this is to avoid punishing a more expensive 4 line kite.

If they have no experience I usually plan to fly the trainer for about an hour. I'm coaching them on keeping their hands close together. My trainer bar has a chicken loop, an old harness windsurfing line, attached to the bar.

Good habits to develop on a trainer are:

1. Steering the kite by pushing and pulling(avoid steering wheel, don't work.)
2. Once the student is flying well we hook into the loop.(I would not recommend this if you are alone and without proper instruction.)
3. Steering with one hand while walking the box. (While hooked in you are steering with one hand and walking in a box pattern. This takes a big space and solid kite control skills.

I could go on, but I would rather just give you a lesson. If your interested in a free trainer lesson send me a pm. I live in Pdx. as well. It might actually be fun to get together and punish a trainer kite.

My point here is save your money!!! Don't buy an expensive kite until you take a lesson and beat up whichever school you choose to take lessons from.

My 5.5 meter best teaching kite cost me about $800 with a bar and short lines.

My 3 meter trainer(slingy) cost me about $250 with bar and my add on's.

You can buy a decent 2 meter trainer for $200 to $300 with a bar that you can use forever!!

Cheeers,
R

Very Happy

Lurk · Since 04 Apr 2009 355 Posts Obsessed

Get the 4.5 or 5m RPM. Then I would get my skis or snowboard and learn on the snow. Still need lessons, but this will pave the way.

You will have all the kiteflying skills down in 1 day. Practice relaunch, safety release a lot. This can make your transition to water more easier!

BTW your way past trainer kite stage. Maybe get one for the kids.

airon^ · Since 07 Aug 2013 290 Posts Durango Obsessed

advice^^^^

The biggest problem with snowkiting is that if you don't live in Idaho or North Dakota, access is more difficult.

Plus water is a bit softer than snow for catching a edge.

bulae99 · Since 12 Jul 2006 1691 Posts I give out bad advice.

A used four line kite is going to cost you $400 or close to that price. A good 2 meter or 3 meter 2 line, I like the sling shot B-3 is about $300 and bomb proof.

You can practice your kite window skill anywhere with that kite. You can skate board with it, watch out for trees, but a 4 line kite presents a set of variables that are dangerous, in my opinion and experience.

I like the idea of teaching on a real kite bar and kite, but it's not easy to learn in light winds. A good trainer kite can fly in very little wind.

A 4 to 5 meter kite with a 4 or 5 line bar is going to need a substantial amount of wind. If you are alone and flying in on a hard surface it's going to get powered up at some point. If you are an inexperienced kite pilot you may take it quickly through the apex and it will generate some power and lift you up. If it does, and you do, it may become more than a calm day on the snow. I'm just saying that it's a risk you need to be aware of. I don't recommend learning on your own in light wind and snow.

When you get an instructor to teach you he/she is assessing the situation and makes the decision about site, kite and conditions. In addition they are rigging, spotting and assessing what you to set in good habits. Keeping hands close together, keeping kite low and out of apex, etc... And you don't have to pay for a kite you slam into the surface, be it water or butter.

It's a forum and every one wants to have a say. I'm just saying this as a way to keep your experience more positive. Good luck and I hope you have a great experience.
ron