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inversion avoidance

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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djcovarrubias

Since 27 Aug 2012
11 Posts
portland, or
 



PostMon Aug 27, 12 11:03 am    inversion avoidance Reply with quote

I'm new at this, in spite of many lessons. I kite at very gusty spots in the columbia gorge. I've picked up a bad habit of inverting my kites, 2012 9m2 and 12m2 Slingshot Rallys. It happens when I crash and the lines go slack. I'm pumping to 10psi (ish). I used to go to 12psi, didn't have the problem as much, although my gut is that is more of a riding error than an equipment issue.

Any advice? Links to instruction videos on the topic? Should I start swimming away from the kite as soon as it hits the water?

Thanks,

DC

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Youkai

Since 08 Feb 2010
553 Posts
Beaverton
Addicted



PostMon Aug 27, 12 11:20 am     Reply with quote

If your problem is all from the gusts then you can try keeping your kite lower. Having it off to the side instead of up at 11 or 12 will mean the lines will slack a lot less in a sudden wind void.

I know when I started trying to do more difficult tricks I ran into this problem quite frequently. I had an old T2 and any time I tried to do some trick and the lines went slack the kite would just tie itself into a knot. The answer for me ended up being getting new kites. The kites I have now deals with slack lines significantly better than my old one. I don't know if that will help you since you have modern kites but perhaps the Ralley's don't deal with slack lines as well as some other kites. Someone that has used a Ralley before would need to chime in on that one though.

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ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1490 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster



PostMon Aug 27, 12 11:38 am     Reply with quote

your psi should have no effect... but how you rig the lines may.

my first summer of kiting.... when i was learning new skills like jumping and transitions....almost every session ended because my kite inverted and i ended up with twisted line...it's part of the learning curve.
i could still fly the kite and get back to my launch.....

sortening the back lines may help. when you attach the back lines - use one knot closer to the kite than you do for the front lines.

do you often kite with your depower pulled in more than a few inches? too much depower (more than 6 inches) can cause problems.

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Weaz

Since 23 May 2012
360 Posts
Beaverton
Obsessed



PostMon Aug 27, 12 11:42 am     Reply with quote

What Youkai said.

Basically keep your kite flying and not at the top of the window... If you hit a wind lull if your kite isn't moving it'll start to fall. If the leading edge (especially up at 12) falls too far before wind hits it i'll just fall out of the sky.

I've found when falling if i can keep the kite moving, or sending it to 2:00/10:00 still powered a little helps.

If it's already in the water line tension is the key, if it goes slack it can easily invert, swiming away can help with that, but keeping the kite moving and airborne is the best option.

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OG

Since 07 Jun 2011
599 Posts

Addicted



PostMon Aug 27, 12 12:51 pm    Re: inversion avoidance Reply with quote

djcovarrubias wrote:
I'm new at this, in spite of many lessons. I kite at very gusty spots in the columbia gorge. I've picked up a bad habit of inverting my kites, 2012 9m2 and 12m2 Slingshot Rallys. It happens when I crash and the lines go slack. I'm pumping to 10psi (ish). I used to go to 12psi, didn't have the problem as much, although my gut is that is more of a riding error than an equipment issue.

Any advice? Links to instruction videos on the topic? Should I start swimming away from the kite as soon as it hits the water?

Thanks,

DC


so is it doing the inversion thing where your line rigging is getting tangled? or just folding up on itself and you're having a problem with the technique to work this out?

I've flown a lot of companies 3 strut open c designs this summer, i do see that the rally is a 3 strut delta though. I've done the thing where they've folded up on themselves plenty. In every case it was just a matter of getting the under side of the canopy exposed to some wind, and then the wind and the kite (and of course sheeting out) did the rest. I can't speak to it folding in and through the lines to make a cross line type of issue though.

Ask SS mang. Seems like something their support will have a useful opinion and technique about.

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djcovarrubias

Since 27 Aug 2012
11 Posts
portland, or
 



PostMon Aug 27, 12 2:25 pm     Reply with quote

Thanks everyone! I'll try all these things.

DC

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kenja

Since 19 Jun 2008
179 Posts

Stoked



PostMon Aug 27, 12 7:27 pm     Reply with quote

If it is happening when you still have forward speed and the kite touches down on the water, that's a bad combo. It's really easy to invert when that happens. Start paying more attention to how you're getting into that situation to avoid doing it. When it does happen, cut hard up wind and pull in your outside line (the one on the opposite side that touched down) to try to keep tension and hopefully get the kite airborne again. You'll eventually learn to feel where the kite is and know when you're about to get into trouble. It becomes second nature to pull the kite out of those situations.

If it is inverting in the air, then it is likely getting too far windward during your jump or trick. Maybe you're not pulling the kite down on your landings or something. I've never ridden the Rally, but most newer kites do not invert unless you do something very, very wrong. Now, my 2002 Fuel was a different story. It would invert (aka Hindenburg) if you looked at it funny.

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MarkWorth

Since 02 May 2011
149 Posts
Hood River
Stoked



PostWed Aug 29, 12 7:48 am     Reply with quote

kenja nailed it.

Your job is to keep line tension at all times.

When your kite is in the sky on slack lines, it can Hindenburg and the leading edge can “drop through” your lines and you end up with your steering lines deflecting around your front lines. This can also happen with the kite in the water if the kite is at the edge of the window in the launch position and the wind pushes it toward you.

You can avoid this by keeping your kite lines tensioned. If the kite is in the sky, turn it away from the edge of the window where the go lines slack. If you are landing a jump the kite must be turned into a dive as you land to maintain line tension. If you hit the water with the kite as you are riding, turn away from the kite by edging your board or get off the board before you get slack in the lines.
The easiest and quickest way to roll your kite through the lines is to float towards shore with the kite on the water leading the way. The kite gets to shore first and stops on the sand as the kiter is drifting in. You get lots of slack fast and all bets are off. No tension = no control.

If you are in the water and do not have good line tension swim away from and up wind of the kite imeadetly.

When a kite inverts, the kite turns inside out. You will be looking at the wrong side of the canopy as the kite flies. This is getting less and less common as kite designs improve. It happens when the kiters suddenly lets the bar all the way out when the kite is so far up wind of you that the wind hits the top of the kite (negative attack angle) and the canopy pops through.

This can be fixed by aggressively flying the kite into the water at the edge of the window(crash the kite as far up wind as you can get it.). If you can get enough slack in the lines it will pop back to the normal shape.

_________________
Have More Fun!
Mark
Gorge Kiteboard School
http://gorgekiteboardschool.com

Last edited by MarkWorth on Wed Aug 29, 12 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total

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kitezilla

Since 22 Jun 2006
453 Posts
gorge
Obsessed



PostWed Aug 29, 12 9:37 am     Reply with quote

Thanks Mark,

Your advice and observations are always appreciated. Your love and dedication to this wonderful activity of kiting shows in the good advice that you freely offer... of course you will never get rich, doing this...not in dollars, anyways. But in kiting community "respect" you are wealthy, indeed.

If it makes the original poster feel any better... I don't ever remember seeing another kite that flies as well in the "half-way" inverted position, as does the 2011 and 2012 Rally. When it happens, just flip your bar half-way around, and fly the kite back to the beach, under pretty much complete control. I would not try this with any other kite, as the kite would probably rip in two, as a result of its"spine" being broken...but the fact that I have never heard of this kite ripping, from pressure put on it while in the half-way inverted position, is a tribute to its construction and the material strength of the Rally. I would not trust the kites I fly, to perform this trick, like the Rally.

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djcovarrubias

Since 27 Aug 2012
11 Posts
portland, or
 



PostFri Aug 31, 12 3:21 pm     Reply with quote

Thanks again for your advice guys, this online forum is really awesome.

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DownStream

Since 18 Apr 2007
381 Posts

Obsessed



PostFri Aug 31, 12 11:14 pm     Reply with quote

this is an awesome forum, with a lot of good advise. i have some too: when your kite is inverted (which will happen), instead of swimming your ass off (towards it), or trying to fly it enough to aggressively crash it on the water, you can simply disable it onto the leash line (especially a single centerline system like SS and many others) and then recover the bar. this will fix an "inverted" kite quickly and easily. in fact, disabling the kite onto a leash line will many times fix all kinds of other problems as well: bridle tangles, outside line/wingtip tangles, unavailable kite catchers, rapidly approaching trees or rock piles, and more.

brett
www.prokitesouthpadre.com

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