Insulating an Old House in Hood River?

forrest · Since 21 Jun 2005 4330 Posts Hood River Hick **CGKA Member**

Anyone have any experience or knowledge doing this? I'm definitely curious about pros/cons of insulating the exterior walls and the crawl space, and how moisture comes into play. I have a few books on order that discuss this topic, but I want to know about experience from local people, as our local climate seems to play a lot into the decision making.

barfly · Since 31 Mar 2005 1214 Posts Portland BRACKISH

Insulation and openings are the big ones. Even if you insulate well, if the openings have not been updated (i.e. new windows and proper flashing), foamed/caulked and waterproofed properly, cold air will get in easily. I'm sure you've looked at that but the two need to go together for proper weatherproofing.

Crawl space insulating and vapor barrier placement is very important, perhaps moreso than wall insulation (especially if you have good siding). 6mil visqueen on crawl space grade level followed by foundation wall/stem wall insulation is the best method (insulation in a stem wall should fill the void between studs and extend down and lay on top of the 6mil visqueen). For more insulation consider insulating between the floor joists but that is secondary (and a PIA).

pdxmonkeyboy · Mon Jan 09, 12 11:09 am

Forrest, I have a good book on the subject. Indeed their are many different things to think about when trying to figure out your ROI. My walls are not insulated Sad

so the best thing we could do was a big round of sealing (outlets, switches, vents, and the places where my wires run through the top plate into the attic) followed by a heavy dose of attic insulation.

I'll check with my wife, you should avail of the energy trusts free home audit. They will do a blower door test and give you a list of weatherization priorities. The blower test will... well, it will blow you away. The amount of cold air coming through the electrical outlets and what not was shocking.

forrest · Mon Jan 09, 12 11:12 am

I've already had a $3000 round of work done to seal the air leaks. I was at a catastrophic level before (4221 CFM @ 50Pa), now I'm down to 2665 CFM at 50pa. My biggest problem with leaky air is that I have a pan joist that the person who renovated this home in 2003 boxed in for air return, but completely inaccessible so I can't do anything about it.

quenyaistar · Since 21 Oct 2011 416 Posts Cougar, WA Obsessed

When I built my home I did as much as I could myself. When it came to insulating it I learned that a big company could do it for cheaper, including labor, than I could buy the material for, so I let them do it.

forrest · Mon Jan 09, 12 11:16 am

This isn't building from scratch, though. Not sure if that makes a difference in your equation? My biggest expense isn't materials, it's paying contractors to work in a very shallow crawl space. Since they're all so expensive these days, it's become very easy to justify buying tools and books.

da lox · Since 24 May 2007 22 Posts hood river, or

green home construction has an entire weatherization crew - might be worth the $.

also, if you are in energy trust territory there are lots of incentives and sometimes free audits. not sure if you can get the rebates/incentives if you do the work yourself...

forrest · Mon Jan 09, 12 12:44 pm

I can't say positive enough things about Green Home Construction. Those guys did a bang up job on the air sealing of my house, were very clear in communicating, cost slightly less than they quoted, and took slightly less time than they quoted. I got nearly 1/3 of the cost of hiring them back from the Energy Trust of Oregon. I've worked with them to put together a plan for the house, but I'm trying to gain enough knowledge to do as much of it as I can. There will be things I can't do on my own, but I need to figure out where the line should be drawn.

Right now I'm trying to find out what others have done, specific to this area, in terms of insulating and old home where you can't install a vapor barrier in the walls without tearing out the finish and replacing it.

chrissmack · Since 08 Jun 2005 526 Posts portland Addicted

just glanced at the post and read "INSULTING an old house in hood river"; your mama is so fat, she's a triple-wide!

but seriously, do you mind saying how much the cost was to seal up the house? i'm having trouble finding the time, and this is definitely the weak link in our house (decent windows and doors, non-insulated walls)

forrest · Mon Jan 09, 12 2:08 pm

$3000. State of Oregon gave me back $1000, so $2000 in the end. Was roughly 3 days of work with 3 contractors on site.

barfly · Since 31 Mar 2005 1214 Posts Portland BRACKISH

You have a pan joist in your home? Typically a building construction floor system consisting of a monolithic concrete pour.

Depending on the length of the span where the mechanical/HVAC duct is running, it might not be too bad to rip the drywall off and rebuild the soffit w/insulation.

Regarding the exterior wall insulation, you have a tough one considering the expensive and time consuming task to tear off finishes. Blowing insulation is not an option but you know that. In cold climates the vapor is coming from the inside of your house so short of removing the drywall, there aren't many options I'm aware of. Vapor retardant paint is a joke and in the end dealing with openings are probably the best you can do. Even if you spend thousands removing drywall and insulating properly your pay back won't come for a decade or more.

We've used poly foam insulation boards in crawl spaces. That stuff is expensive but considering your space limitations, it may be useful and has a high R value.

chrissmack · Since 08 Jun 2005 526 Posts portland Addicted

Chooch · Mon Jan 09, 12 3:41 pm

barfly · Since 31 Mar 2005 1214 Posts Portland BRACKISH

chrissmack · Since 08 Jun 2005 526 Posts portland Addicted

thanks for the explanation. i always wondered what the catch was with the blown in (if it was awesome, more old houses would have).

the amount of moisture that "breathes" from the inside of the house out is amazing. makes me glad i don't have some new-fangled siding product that they promise will last forever, but is getting torn off in a decade.

kenja · Since 19 Jun 2008 179 Posts Stoked

I had insulation blown into the walls of my 1930 house. They removed shingles outside each stud cavity, drilled ~2" holes and blew it in with a special blower. Took about a day and seems to make a pretty big difference. That said, I don't have hard data. It was done by Doug Carlock (sp?) and while I don't remember the price, it seemed pretty cheap.

forrest · Tue Jan 10, 12 9:18 am

Pan Joist is what the Green Home Construction guys are calling it. Essentially, the guy who renovated the home in 2003 used the space between two of the 2x8s in the floor as the air return to the HVAC, and it's very leaky.

The plan from Green Home Construction, after the initial work to do air sealing, is as follows:

- Dense pack the walls of the first floor and possibly the gable ends of the second story with cellulose.
- Insulate the ceilings of the crawlspaces with fiberglass batting
- Cut additional vents through foundation wall.
- Install complete vapor barrier.
- Insulate the knee wall of the crawlspace.

So, they do recommend blow in insulation in the exterior walls. Check this out though, Cellulose apparently doesn't require vapor barrier:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulose_insulation#Vapor_barrier