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4Stringer/KipWinger
Since 27 Apr 2005
541 Posts
Hood River
Addicted
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hilton
Since 15 Aug 2008
800 Posts
Opinionated
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 Wed May 04, 11 6:27 am dk hook knife |
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to summarize: double bladed kite knives work much better.
the dakine hook knife now has a double blade and fits in the pocket on most of their harnesses and bar pads. It is included with the new harnesses or costs about $10 separately. cheap insurance just in case you ever need it.
hopefully the local shops have stocked up.
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Pepi
Since 16 Jun 2006
1831 Posts
Pure Stoke Sports
Shop Owner
CGKA Member
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| Wed May 04, 11 7:20 am Re: dk hook knife |
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| hilton wrote: | to summarize: double bladed kite knives work much better.
the dakine hook knife now has a double blade and fits in the pocket on most of their harnesses and bar pads. It is included with the new harnesses or costs about $10 separately. cheap insurance just in case you ever need it.
hopefully the local shops have stocked up. |
Please be aware that even though Dakine has modified this knife into a double blade, due to the blades being at such a broad angle, it still requires a very large amount of tension on the lines for the knife to cut a set of kite lines.
Each season I get together with my kite staff and we test out how well each of the kite knives we sell work, on what thickness of lines and with how much tension.
The Captain Hook Knife is not as compact or convenient at the Dakine knife, but it will cut any kite lines under almost zero pressure load due to the sharper angle of the double blade knives.
In summary:
Dakine Knife - Much more compact, but requires two hands to cut lines (one hand wrapped in the line for tension and the other to hold the knife). If you use this knife be aware of how much tension is required to cut your kite lines, and this will not cut fishing net/lines, only kite flying lines. Also, if you use this in salt water, be sure to clean it and coat it with a silicone or teflon protectant.
Captain Hook Knife - A bit larger (which can be easier to hold) and not as compact, but cuts lines ninja quick with very little tension on lines, and will cut fishing net/lines as well as any other lines that will fit into the opening.
In the end, any knife is better than no knife, but just make sure that you are familiar with the capabilities of your knife. We sell both knives and are only attempting to promote what we know and what we hear from our customers experiences.
Each year we hear horror stories from customers who pull out their knives for the first time in an emergency and find out that they have no idea how good or bad they really work.
know your knife and take care of it.
_________________
Pure Stoke Sports
Hood River, OR
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hood-River-OR/2nd-Wind-Sports/35891485558?ref=mf
www.Purestokesports.com |
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kitezilla
Since 22 Jun 2006
453 Posts
gorge
Obsessed
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| Wed May 04, 11 8:05 am Re: kite knives |
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| 4Stringer/KipWinger wrote: |
Now, someone please summarize it. |
SUMMARY:
Here is the "long" and the "short" of it...
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other_double_blade_hook_knife__803.jpg |
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captain_hook__633.jpg |
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Macaframa
Since 06 Jul 2010
81 Posts
California Delta
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| Wed May 04, 11 8:18 am Wire cutters, scissors? |
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I think this is a great topic to discuss and it has got me thinking about my own preparations and what might work best. From what I've gathered the "kite line" knives don't sound especially effective and possibly prone to creating a false sense of security. So that got me thinking of alternatives that could cut kite lines with one hand, is light weight, corrosion resistant, and that's small and above all, fast. I haven't spent the time to locate a specific product but I believe there may be some potential in small wire cutters. I found a few that are lightweight, small, sharp, have sheaths, corrosion resistant, fully operable with one hand, line tension or not. I think there may be some potential in certain types of small, rounded blade scissors as well. Maybe that way one could saw repeatedly at a stubborn portion as opposed to the kite knives that require rigid line-tension to work. As expected there is +/-'s for all options I've encountered.
Thanks for the thought provoking post...
Cheers
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bustingbladder
Since 12 Jul 2006
387 Posts
Seattle
Obsessed
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kitezilla
Since 22 Jun 2006
453 Posts
gorge
Obsessed
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| Wed May 04, 11 9:54 am |
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I would avoid the Dakine knife...like the plague. I would like to support local business, and I buy as much stuff as I can from Dakine, and the only thing I can say is "Please, Dakine, redesign your knife. You are so much better than that "Piece-of.....let's say "Equipment". Please give someone in the R&D department an hour and a half off, to read the following thread from Kiteforum:
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2343820
..................................
Or... at least have them read this:
The problem is really quite easy to figure out, once you have all the data. To start, here is step-by-step analysis of the factors involved in the cutting of a kite line by a double-bladed hook knife:
(A) The line goes into the "jaw" opening and encounters only one blade at first. As the line slides along the edge of the blade, the cutting of a notch on one side of the kite line begins. This notch could be called a "stress riser". The longer the length of the "slide", the more time the edge has to cut the string, and therefore the deeper the notch. Therefore, a longer set of blades will be more effective than a short set of blades.
(B) The line finally hits the bottom inside of the "V", where it slams into the other blade. If the blades are oriented, (as shown in the drawing of my previous post), labeled as (4) "correct" position, then, when the line slams into the second blade, at the bottom of the "V", the new notch that forms on the line will be very close to the first notch… kind of like the notch a woodsman cuts on the side of a tree, being chainsawed. The woodsman places the notch at the proper distance from his saw cut, on the other side of the tree in order to weaken the tree. I would make the case that the closer the 2 notches are, together, the more the likelihood of a quick shear of the line, rather than an abrasion on each side of the line, which would result in the stunting of the "domino effect", or the "breakage cascade" of the fibers of the line, where the individual fibers break in quick succession. So, I would make the case that placement of the edges of the blades, in the jaw of a hook knife, is an important factor, in line cutting efficiency.
(C) Another factor affecting the cutting efficiency, would be the likelihood of the line having the opportunity to bend and then jam or wedge into a space between the edge of each of the blades. This jamming situation would allow the line to form a squashed or distorted shape, and this bending of the line would permit the line to strike the edge of the blade with a "glancing' blow, and this glancing blow would act more to just nick or abrade the line, rather than dig deeply into the line. Having the line strike the edge of the blade solidly, at a 90 degree angle, would be most effective in concentrating the force of the edge of the blade on the string. The drawing (3), labeled "worse", would allow the greatest chance of this scenario, and would result in the necessity of a kiter having to exert a greater force in order to completely cut the line. The drawing (4), labeled "correct", shows how the SINGLE BEVELED blades are positioned, so that the sharp edge of each blade would encounter the string, with the sharp edge of each blade, oriented as close as possible to each other. The same principle would be involved in chopping through a limb with an axe...the closer the axe strikes are to the center of the cut, the faster the limb will be cut through.
(D) Another factor affecting the cutting efficiency, would be the angle between the sides of the "V". The smaller the angle, the higher the cutting power of the 2 blades. The reason would be that the more constricted space between the edges of the blades, would cause the edges to "pinch" the line sooner during the "slide" and be more effective, in digging into the line.
(E) One could probably make the case (adding to the "parade of horrors"), by noting that, in time, sand, grease and dirt could find a home in the crevice, located between the incorrectly oriented bevels on the blades, and this would cushion the "line-slam" and, over time, add to the impairment of the cutting ability of the blades... so the closer the edges of the 2 blades are to each other, the less space there is for dirt to accumulate.
The details listed in the scenario ( A to E) of a line getting cut may have some debatable points, and I welcome all comments and opinions on the subject.
One can see from the pictures (in the previous post) that the new double-bladed DaKine hook knife has DOUBLE BEVELED blades inserted in the "jaw" of the framework. My drawing shows the arrangement of such blades, labeled as (1) "bad". These blades are also SHORT in length, not long, like the blades in the more effective hook knives. The angle of the "V" of the intersection of these 2 short blades is very wide, compared to the narrow "V" angle of the more effective hook knives. All of these features add up to POOR performance in a hook knife. A lot can be learned from analyzing the features of this knife.
There is one additional issue, I would like to comment on:
The "replacement blade issue":
To add to the problems, encountered in the subject of kite knives, would be the problem of having people put in replacement blades. Some long-handled hook knives come with replacement blades, which are meant to be put into position, when the original blades become dull…But the problem is that many people are not good at doing that kind of procedure. You can see from the drawing on my previous post, that, unless the person doing the replacement, pays particular attention to detail and reads the instructions…that, the chances of reassembling the blades in a double-bladed hook knife, with the blades in the "correct" position shown as (4) in the drawing…would only be 33%. A manufacturer could even worry about the liability of selling such an item, which has not been made completely "dumb-proof". I don't think that there would be an easy way of drilling the holes in the blades and frame which would make the item "goof-proof". Maybe there is, though, and that would be a positive thing.
Overall, there are quite a few "devils" in quite a few "details" about these hook knives…so, I would end by saying...
In conclusion:
Even though the new double-bladed DaKine has one nice feature, that being the nice big ergonomic handle, the knife is hopelessly ineffective for the task that it is made for, and should be redesigned to incorporate the following 3 features:
1. SINGLE BEVELED edges on each of the two blades, with the blades assembled in the (4) "correct" position (as shown in the drawing).
2. LONGER BLADES and a longer 'jaw' in the framework of the knife in order to hold the blades.
3. MORE CONSTRICTED "V" between the blade edges .
Here is a copy of the picture presented a few years earlier in this thread, showing all 3 of the above listed features. If the new DaKine knife were to be redesigned to incorporate the 3 features, as shown in the picture, (along with a feature to make it float), then, I think that a very good short-handled hook knife would be the result.
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toddjb
Since 16 Oct 2007
271 Posts
MD
Obsessed
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| Wed May 04, 11 10:39 am Re: dk hook knife |
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| Pepi wrote: | ...
Dakine Knife - Much more compact, but requires two hands to cut lines (one hand wrapped in the line for tension and the other to hold the knife). If you use this knife be aware of how much tension is required to cut your kite lines, and this will not cut fishing net/lines, only kite flying lines... |
Wow, I didn't realize this. This is the main reason I have it! Nothing like getting tangled up in a fishing line and watching it run at speed around your ankle knowing there is a big treble at the end of that line to get your heart pumping!
I keep the Dakine knife on my Pyro harness.
I actually have the Captain Hook knife as well, but haven't found a good place to mount it on my waist harness.
I ALSO own the dive knife, below. This thing is great, but again...where to mount it? I was able to put it on the side of my Nitrous shorts when I had those, but once I switched to the waist harness I haven't found a good place to put it. I wish I had it with me last week down in Hatty when the screw came out of my binding strap in the middle of a downwinder. The blunt end of this would have been useful to put the screw back in...
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Mark
Since 20 Jun 2005
3678 Posts
I need my fix because I'm a
Naishaholic
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| Wed May 04, 11 11:01 am Re: dk hook knife |
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| toddjb wrote: | | Pepi wrote: | ...
Dakine Knife - Much more compact, but requires two hands to cut lines (one hand wrapped in the line for tension and the other to hold the knife). If you use this knife be aware of how much tension is required to cut your kite lines, and this will not cut fishing net/lines, only kite flying lines... |
Wow, I didn't realize this. This is the main reason I have it! Nothing like getting tangled up in a fishing line and watching it run at speed around your ankle knowing there is a big treble at the end of that line to get your heart pumping!
I keep the Dakine knife on my Pyro harness.
I actually have the Captain Hook knife as well, but haven't found a good place to mount it on my waist harness.
I ALSO own the dive knife, below. This thing is great, but again...where to mount it? I was able to put it on the side of my Nitrous shorts when I had those, but once I switched to the waist harness I haven't found a good place to put it. I wish I had it with me last week down in Hatty when the screw came out of my binding strap in the middle of a downwinder. The blunt end of this would have been useful to put the screw back in...
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Have been using that exact knife for years. I put a dakine strap (like you see on a seat harness) accross the back of my waist harness. I put it on that in the right side. Easy to reach. In fact it helped out a fellow kiter last year that was tangled in fishing rope. Also can use for a screw driver.
_________________
Cleverly disguised as an adult...
www.naishkites.com |
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Gman
Since 11 Feb 2006
4911 Posts
Portland
Unstrapped
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jdk
Since 21 Dec 2005
333 Posts
Obsessed
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| Wed May 04, 11 11:44 am |
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| Quote: | | Have been using that exact knife for years. I put a dakine strap (like you see on a seat harness) accross the back of my waist harness. I put it on that in the right side. Easy to reach. In fact it helped out a fellow kiter last year that was tangled in fishing rope. Also can use for a screw driver |
can you post a pic of this setup by chance? i have a similar knife but didn't know how to mount it (considered sewing a mount) but never did because i thought it might do more harm than good if it wasn't done right -- might be too snaggy, etc
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Pepi
Since 16 Jun 2006
1831 Posts
Pure Stoke Sports
Shop Owner
CGKA Member
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| Wed May 04, 11 11:46 am Re: kite knives |
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| kitezilla wrote: | | 4Stringer/KipWinger wrote: |
Now, someone please summarize it. |
SUMMARY:
Here is the "long" and the "short" of it... |
As far as we have tested at the shop, the Captain Hook and the Mystic (although it is metal and will corrode) are the two best kite specific knives to use.
Even better is a dive knife or Paramedic Seatbelt Knife like what Bustingbladder is referring to in the weblink.
_________________
Pure Stoke Sports
Hood River, OR
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hood-River-OR/2nd-Wind-Sports/35891485558?ref=mf
www.Purestokesports.com |
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Windance Crew
Since 18 Apr 2008
473 Posts
Hood River Kite Shop
Obsessed
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| Wed May 04, 11 12:34 pm |
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Great discussion
I sent the link to Chris Gilbert at DaKine. Let's see what happens
_________________
Windance Boardshop- Hood River
www.windance.com |
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melokitegirl
Since 28 Oct 2008
396 Posts
Where the wind blows
Obsessed
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Pepi
Since 16 Jun 2006
1831 Posts
Pure Stoke Sports
Shop Owner
CGKA Member
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melokitegirl
Since 28 Oct 2008
396 Posts
Where the wind blows
Obsessed
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| Wed May 04, 11 4:58 pm |
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luv ya Pepi!
_________________
Be kind to Kooks |
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DMac
Since 14 Jun 2009
135 Posts
Stoked
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| Wed May 04, 11 7:24 pm another good knife choice |
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CRKT Bearclaw. Check it out on their website. compact, sharp, easy to use, cuts anything. composite sheath mounts on your shorts or waist harness next to your spreader bar - have been riding with one for two years. great setup. $40 is more than the crappy 'safety knives' but it's cheap insurance and a lifetime tool.
pics attached of the knife on the L side of the spreader bar on Nitrous shorts. I'm R handed, so it's set up for a R handed grab. doesn't get in the way, never has given me a problem. maybe would be bothersome if I wasn't wearing a wetsuit or at least a rashguard...
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Last edited by DMac on Tue May 10, 11 6:41 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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