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DROCK999
Since 31 May 2007
852 Posts
Left Coast
Opinionated
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pjc
Since 06 Mar 2005
649 Posts
Addicted
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 Tue Feb 15, 11 10:54 am |
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Interesting to see if takes off. Looks like it has much better potential than a wakepark.
Kayak playparks are now considered generally as good or better than natural river features.
Not to get all political, but the biggest obstacle to kayak playpark construction appears to be environmentalists who advocate for "natural" river flow. If this thing works on resoivoirs that are already man made, they hopefully won't have that obstacle. |
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kitemare
Since 23 Mar 2010
265 Posts
Seattle, wa
Obsessed
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| Tue Feb 15, 11 7:16 pm |
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Lets put this in as well as a cable park in the boat basin in HR.
Run them at different times so everyone could get some action then combine it and turn them both on for the "pros".
It would be THE GREATEST THING EVER INVENTED!!!
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Respect the kite, respect the beaches |
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holly
Since 09 Jul 2006
440 Posts
Hood River
Obsessed
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| Tue Feb 15, 11 7:23 pm |
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| thats sick!!!! |
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pkh
Since 27 Feb 2005
6549 Posts
Couve / Hood
Honored Founder
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| Tue Feb 15, 11 8:30 pm |
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| schweet! |
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bwd
Since 04 Aug 2007
385 Posts
Obsessed
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| Tue Feb 15, 11 8:56 pm |
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| cool, but it looks like they are moving a hell of a lot of cubic meters of water to be able to claim any reasonable efficiency and economy... ...I would like to see it for real naturally. I might like to have it in my backyard, if the energy to run it was free.... |
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Inept_Fun
Since 14 Apr 2005
1417 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster
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| Wed Feb 16, 11 8:26 am |
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Run dat bitch of solar panels. Gonna be sick!
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I heart dangling |
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pjc
Since 06 Mar 2005
649 Posts
Addicted
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| Wed Feb 16, 11 10:12 am |
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| bwd wrote: | | cool, but it looks like they are moving a hell of a lot of cubic meters of water to be able to claim any reasonable efficiency and economy... |
analyzing the energy requirements would be an interesting physics problem
remember - a wave actually isn't moving water. the water moves up and down. the "energy" moves in the direction of the wave. (i think)
so just because the wave rolls a long distance before crapping out doesn't mean it's sucking down extra energy. the energy needed is a question of how big the wave is, and this is kind of a small wave.
spike is even nerdier than me - he should say something |
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Aeolus
Since 20 Apr 2010
354 Posts
Gold Beach, OR
OR-SoCo-Aficionado
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| Wed Feb 16, 11 10:52 am |
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....swell forecast for the Bonneville Wave Park......2ft at 8 seconds rising to 10 ft at 17 seconds at lunch time 
.....just have to convince the dam folk to release a small fraction of that flow in a more creative way
http://tlc.howstuffworks.com/family/wave-pool5.htm .......and I thought waves were made by wind...... 
Last edited by Aeolus on Wed Feb 16, 11 11:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sirmichaelo
Since 26 Mar 2010
353 Posts
Maui
Obsessed
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| Wed Feb 16, 11 11:03 am |
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Very cool.
The golden phrase on the website is the following:
"Stay tuned to see shoulder high waves this summer."
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Life is too short for second chances, although we do get many of them. |
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DROCK999
Since 31 May 2007
852 Posts
Left Coast
Opinionated
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| Wed Feb 16, 11 11:45 am |
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| pjc wrote: |
remember - a wave actually isn't moving water. the water moves up and down. the "energy" moves in the direction of the wave. (i think)
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Yep, best description for a wave is like ones that happen at sporting events, the people arent actually moving , its just the transfer of energy from one person to the next. Same with water molecules, its just the transfer of energy from one to the next as it travels along
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BIP- "YOUR GIRLFRIENDS FAVORITE" |
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pdxmonkeyboy
Since 16 May 2006
6081 Posts
forever labled as the
retired kiter & motorhead Unicorn Master
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| Wed Feb 16, 11 11:51 am |
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| pjc wrote: | | bwd wrote: | | cool, but it looks like they are moving a hell of a lot of cubic meters of water to be able to claim any reasonable efficiency and economy... |
analyzing the energy requirements would be an interesting physics problem
remember - a wave actually isn't moving water. the water moves up and down. the "energy" moves in the direction of the wave. (i think)
so just because the wave rolls a long distance before crapping out doesn't mean it's sucking down extra energy. the energy needed is a question of how big the wave is, and this is kind of a small wave.
spike is even nerdier than me - he should say something |
It would take an enormous amount of force. There are ways to efficiently generate this force (hydraulics for instance) but still allot of force. Pick up a 5 gallon bucket of water over your head. now imagine trying to move thousands of gallons of water.
Waves are energy moving through the water and that energy has to come from somewhere..the tides, wind, moving surfaces, etc.
Still a bitchin concept though. Something like that would do very well financially in portland.
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Bury me standing cause I won't lay down!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVvAw2VFR4Y&feature=PlayList&p=FB7233C37686AC79&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=34 |
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pjc
Since 06 Mar 2005
649 Posts
Addicted
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| Wed Feb 16, 11 12:16 pm |
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Well, force is besides the point. The issue is how much energy it takes.
The wave is kind of small, so the water isn't being lifted very high.
Driving a car down the road takes a crap load of energy - you burn lots of gas driving for a few hours.
Pulling a guy to his feet and giving him a short ride doesn't take much energy. Don't you guys ride all day with a gallon of gas with those winch things?
Seems like these guys are trying to do something like the grinch winch, except instead of pulling you they create a small targeted wave powerful enough to push you.
So when they say it takes less energy to ride all afternoon at the wave garden than it does to drive 90 minutes and back to the ocean, it doesn't sound unreasonable to me. But it'd be interesting to look at the numbers they used. |
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Aeolus
Since 20 Apr 2010
354 Posts
Gold Beach, OR
OR-SoCo-Aficionado
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| Wed Feb 16, 11 1:32 pm |
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| pjc wrote: | | So when they say it takes less energy to ride all afternoon at the wave garden than it does to drive 90 minutes and back to the ocean, it doesn't sound unreasonable to me. But it'd be interesting to look at the numbers they used. |
They did some calculations for carbon in the environment section .....there are some energy balance numbers there for you...
http://www.wave-garden.com/lang/en-us/product/the-wave/environment
In their example the wave garden is operating at 700 kWh/hour......could probably start making some assumptions of your own for how much it's going to cost you per ride....can't really tell how many waves you'll get to ride at 35 kWh/surfer in that 1.5 hours at the park.
I tried to calculate the cost per wave ride using my kites on the coast.....it's quite a sweet deal really.....best to keep the wave count high  those kites aren't cheap....lol.
I admire their vision...... to provide more people that unreal feeling of dropping in.....truly a money maker if they can keep the wave count high for everyone. |
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pjc
Since 06 Mar 2005
649 Posts
Addicted
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| Thu Feb 17, 11 10:37 am |
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700kWhr per hour doesn't sound like an enormous burn rate to me. They claim they can spread that over 35 dudes, thats 20kWhr per hour per person.
A gallon of gas has about 34 kWhr in it. So not really a enormous amount of energy to run the wave garden, I guess. |
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pdxmonkeyboy
Since 16 May 2006
6081 Posts
forever labled as the
retired kiter & motorhead Unicorn Master
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| Thu Feb 17, 11 12:08 pm |
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| pjc wrote: | 700kWhr per hour doesn't sound like an enormous burn rate to me. They claim they can spread that over 35 dudes, thats 20kWhr per hour per person.
A gallon of gas has about 34 kWhr in it. So not really a enormous amount of energy to run the wave garden, I guess. |
700KWH PER HOUR doesn't seem like much to you? Ummmm, the average household in oregon uses about 600 KwH PER MONTH. So if that place operates 8 hours a day for a month they would be using 168,000 Kwh.
So a little comparison:
Average monthly household usage: 600 Kwh
Wave farm usage: 168,000 Kwh
It is VERY difficult to compare gasoline burning and electricity usage in terms of carbon offsets as you ahve to know the source of the power. So if this company is using hydro or wind power calculations, then there numbers are going to look allot better than a wave farm in Ohio which is going to be powered by burning coal.
To the above notion that it won't take allot of energy... yeah, my winch can pull guys for miles on a gallon of gas. Put the amount of work done by the winch is minimal, its only a 6hp motor and all we are really doing is displacing a small amount of water equal to the size of the board, the riders weight and the drag rating. Water is HEAVY, if you want to move it, it takes allot of energy. Your not moving people, you are moving water.
Anywho, just providing a little clarification. Bottom line is its fucking cool. Who cares if it burns allot of power, so do the parking lot lights at wall mart.
_________________
Bury me standing cause I won't lay down!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVvAw2VFR4Y&feature=PlayList&p=FB7233C37686AC79&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=34 |
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pjc
Since 06 Mar 2005
649 Posts
Addicted
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| Thu Feb 17, 11 12:46 pm |
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20KhWhr per hour per person is their estimate. That's not a lot of energy.
I know it's not a lot of energy, because you it would cost you about $2 to purchase that much electricity, and $2 isn't a lot of money.
So about $70 per hour for the electricity if you wanted the wave garden all for yourself. Again, not really all that much money for most people in the US. About the same as a cab, or a shrink. |
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