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Pulley Bar?
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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Nick

Since 09 Nov 2007
164 Posts
Hood River
Stoked

CGKA Member


PostThu Feb 04, 10 3:33 pm     Reply with quote

If you ride 12 Meter Lines compared to 24 Meter Lines does it change the way the kite rides?

If you ride a 10" Bar compared to a 24" bar does it change the way the kite rides?

If you ride 2:1 bar compared to 1:1 bar does it change the way the kite rides?

YES!

I don't ride a pulley bar so I cannot comment on that but the bar and lines DO change the way a kite rides. I don't think there is any debating that.

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Naish

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Chooch

Since 18 Nov 2007
1871 Posts
Wicked Pissah
Boston Tea Bagger



PostThu Feb 04, 10 3:52 pm     Reply with quote

Nick wrote:
If you ride 12 Meter Lines compared to 24 Meter Lines does it change the way the kite rides?

If you ride a 10" Bar compared to a 24" bar does it change the way the kite rides?

If you ride 2:1 bar compared to 1:1 bar does it change the way the kite rides?

YES!

I don't ride a pulley bar so I cannot comment on that but the bar and lines DO change the way a kite rides. I don't think there is any debating that.


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Well put Nick

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TWIN-FIN

Since 24 May 2006
805 Posts
Portland, OR
Hot Monkey



PostThu Feb 04, 10 8:49 pm     Reply with quote

WOW!!!!!
Such a debate over a pully bar.....I just wanted to try one.
Thanks for hooken me up for unhooken Joby Mr. Green

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Inept_Fun

Since 14 Apr 2005
1417 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster



PostThu Feb 04, 10 8:54 pm     Reply with quote

sorry taut you didnt get that...

and i dont ride a pulley bar I like a regular 4 line bar. Thats why I said talk to Joby because he actually does ride one and know whats up with them.

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tautologies

Since 24 Aug 2006
602 Posts
Oahu
Addicted



PostThu Feb 04, 10 11:33 pm     Reply with quote

Nick wrote:
If you ride 12 Meter Lines compared to 24 Meter Lines does it change the way the kite rides?

If you ride a 10" Bar compared to a 24" bar does it change the way the kite rides?

If you ride 2:1 bar compared to 1:1 bar does it change the way the kite rides?

YES!

I don't ride a pulley bar so I cannot comment on that but the bar and lines DO change the way a kite rides. I don't think there is any debating that.


...but please read what I am writing. You have to look beyond what you are writing. Why does a 10'' bar change the way the kite rides compared to a 24 '' bar? Because they pull different amount of back line. This is the ONLY reason. The reason why line length change the kite rides is because the sine is shorter. There is really no magic in this.

My whole point is this: A longer regular bar that pulls in 10cm on one back line has the same net effect as a pulley bar that pulls in 5 cm on one back line and gives out 5 cm on both front lines. Compared to your examples it is like changing a 20 meter set of lines with another set of 20 meter lines (maybe colored).

If the end result is that the pulley bar changes the line length the same amount a longer regular bar does then there is NO difference in how the kite handles.

Now it sounds like I really care about this, but I really don't. I just want anyone to think I am saying something I am not. If you wonder yes I do have a pulleybar that is partially rebuilt.

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tautologies

Since 24 Aug 2006
602 Posts
Oahu
Addicted



PostThu Feb 04, 10 11:37 pm     Reply with quote

TWIN-FIN wrote:
WOW!!!!!
Such a debate over a pully bar.....I just wanted to try one.
Thanks for hooken me up for unhooken Joby Mr. Green


that is why we're all here right? Smile

Try one for sure. I think riding with a locked bar or pulley bar forces people to become better board riders, which is a good thing. If you decide to go out on a pulley bar make sure it is not a very stormy day the first time.

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tautologies

Since 24 Aug 2006
602 Posts
Oahu
Addicted



PostThu Feb 04, 10 11:40 pm     Reply with quote

oh no I just realized I must sound like one of those super angry guys. Not my intention.

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kitezilla

Since 22 Jun 2006
453 Posts
gorge
Obsessed



PostFri Feb 05, 10 6:15 am     Reply with quote

Hey, Taut and Hein...Over the last 5 or 6 years, I gotta say, both of you guys have influenced me, in a positive way, and have helped me select the equipment and techniques I use in kiteboarding. You are both "deep thinkers", and scientific types, and I like to think that I am also...although, I am more just a "tinkerer". So, as, I would like to give back something in return for your past helpful council...I have "tinkered up" an experiment, which should help to settle this debate.

I have found that both types of bars, long conventional bar and shorter pulley bar, can be rigged up on the same set of lines, allowing me to go out and switch back and forth, between both types of bars, simply letting the one unused bar dangle and drag in the water, while I check out the feel of the other bar.

Looks like the wind is up right now, and I will be able to do the test today. I'll try to get right back to you with the results of the comparison. This is the kind of stuff I like to do...it should be fun!

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kitezilla

Since 22 Jun 2006
453 Posts
gorge
Obsessed



PostFri Feb 05, 10 6:28 am     Reply with quote

OK, so I'm back now...the wind was a little gusty......... and so, things didn't go exactly as I had hoped. I'll continue the test in three weeks or so. The doc says I gotta stay out of the water, 'till I get the stitches out; and my GI guy says he'll have to wait for the swelling to go down, before he can get the pulley bar out.

What are the chances, doc...WHAT are the chances!

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tautologies

Since 24 Aug 2006
602 Posts
Oahu
Addicted



PostFri Feb 05, 10 12:01 pm     Reply with quote

kitezilla wrote:
OK, so I'm back now...the wind was a little gusty......... and so, things didn't go exactly as I had hoped. I'll continue the test in three weeks or so. The doc says I gotta stay out of the water, 'till I get the stitches out; and my GI guy says he'll have to wait for the swelling to go down, before he can get the pulley bar out.

What are the chances, doc...WHAT are the chances!


what happened? I hope it isn't too bad. Might have some big waves and wind today. Yay. The wind season here have been so bad this year, but it is looking up now. Smile

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kitezilla

Since 22 Jun 2006
453 Posts
gorge
Obsessed



PostFri Feb 05, 10 12:38 pm     Reply with quote

Hey Taut,

Just kidding...sometimes I crack myself up...made up the whole story!

But, I wasn't kidding when I said that both you and Hein have helped me out a lot over the last many years. I have gotten to know you, over the years, on KF, through your informative and always 'heart-felt' posts about many different subjects.

My question is: "What does Robby (there's only one) think of the use of pulley bars?" I think that Naish might of made one about 5 years ago, but don't quote me on that.

It seems like pulley bars are all about riding waves, and that Hawaii is all about riding waves...and that this would be a perfect marriage. Is there an evolution of riders in Hawaii, where the advanced skill riders, go to the pulley style bar? If not, then, is it because of frequent gusty winds, where the ability to depower the kite 'bats last' or 'trumps' other considerations?

Anyways, on NWKite forum, at times, some of us, kind of like to wind each up and push buttons...especially during rainy days, when the moderator is out of town, so don't feel disheartened...Bambam has temporarily left the building, so you are the only Hawaiian left for us to be envious of and to try to knock down to size.

But seriously, I would like to know what Robby thinks of pulley bars.

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Inept_Fun

Since 14 Apr 2005
1417 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster



PostFri Feb 05, 10 9:45 pm     Reply with quote

kitezilla wrote:

But seriously, I would like to know what Robby thinks of pulley bars.


Who gives a shit what that dude thinks about anything!? Last time I checked he was a windsurfer who quit kiting because it was too easy or some shit. He doesn't know the first thing about whats good for the sport.

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tautologies

Since 24 Aug 2006
602 Posts
Oahu
Addicted



PostFri Feb 05, 10 11:10 pm     Reply with quote

kitezilla wrote:


But, I wasn't kidding when I said that both you and Hein have helped me out a lot over the last many years. I have gotten to know you, over the years, on KF, through your informative and always 'heart-felt' posts about many different subjects.


Well I learn just as much. Interacting online forces one to think about the technology and technique, which, whatever your opinion on what is better, is a good thing...and it is a good diversion from my dissertation writing.

Quote:

My question is: "What does Robby (there's only one) think of the use of pulley bars?" I think that Naish might of made one about 5 years ago, but don't quote me on that.


I can't remember ever seeing a pulleybar from Naish. They did make something called UDS, where as far as I remember it you could lock the bar on to the center line, but depower like crazy if needed. I never had that bar so I don't really know how it worked.

Quote:


It seems like pulley bars are all about riding waves, and that Hawaii is all about riding waves...and that this would be a perfect marriage. Is there an evolution of riders in Hawaii, where the advanced skill riders, go to the pulley style bar? If not, then, is it because of frequent gusty winds, where the ability to depower the kite 'bats last' or 'trumps' other considerations?


I think this depends on which spot. If you go to moks or Kailua it is entirely fine to use a pulleybar on tradewind days since the wind is usually pretty stable. If you go to some of the other spots, a pulleybar will kick your ass for sure. At my usual spot it is a challenge to ride C-kite or even delta kites on a normal day.

Quote:

Anyways, on NWKite forum, at times, some of us, kind of like to wind each up and push buttons...especially during rainy days, when the moderator is out of town, so don't feel disheartened...Bambam has temporarily left the building, so you are the only Hawaiian left for us to be envious of and to try to knock down to size.

Well right now we have a cold wave (down to 70-ish...we're all huddling and I had a shorty wetsuit(!!!) on...so not so much to envy right now).. Yesterday was a good day on the North Shore, but winter is super shallow and the wind so far this year has been weird...though it has led to about 8 session in Waikiki and Hawaii Kai so far.

One thing, if you have the pulley bar, and the regular bar, try to see how much the total difference on the back line and front line when turning. It has to be measured some ways up. The only way a pulley bar can change the handling compared to a regular bar with a stopper is if it changes the net difference between front line and backline.
Anyhow take care
a. Smile

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kitezilla

Since 22 Jun 2006
453 Posts
gorge
Obsessed



PostSat Feb 06, 10 3:40 am     Reply with quote

Inept_Fun wrote:
kitezilla wrote:

But seriously, I would like to know what Robby thinks of pulley bars.


Who gives a shit what that dude thinks about anything!?


Well, besides me?... maybe anyone who has respect for one of the top 10 watermen the world has ever seen...

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wakeup

Since 11 Sep 2005
328 Posts
always
Obsessed



PostSat Feb 06, 10 8:04 am     Reply with quote

1. Don Montague always thought of the pulley bar as unsafe. I think this was part of the reason that Lou bailed. don't know about Robbie's thoughts on it--or care.

2. I have ridden with my pulley bar at Kailua, goats, mokes, lani's, waikiki, and barber's point. I don't think that it is as much about the spot, as it is the rider.

3. taut, who are you, have we met? My dad lives in Hauula. Are you from that neck of the woods? why would you hang out on a nw kite forum when you live on oahu? are you a forum junkie?
Quote:
One thing, if you have the pulley bar, and the regular bar, try to see how much the total difference on the back line and front line when turning. It has to be measured some ways up. The only way a pulley bar can change the handling compared to a regular bar with a stopper is if it changes the net difference between front line and backline.

you just dont give up do you? haha

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bwd

Since 04 Aug 2007
385 Posts

Obsessed



PostSat Feb 06, 10 10:40 am     Reply with quote

Quote:

Who gives a shit what that dude thinks about anything!? Last time I checked he was a windsurfer who quit kiting because it was too easy or some shit. He doesn't know the first thing about whats good for the sport.

Not to jump in during a blizzard like a winter troll or anything,
but last time I checked
you were a skinny kid that liked to kite in boots and a nightgown.
And better at shooting photos
than shooting your mouth off.

Take it with a grain of salt,
though, nothin personal.... Cool

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Inept_Fun

Since 14 Apr 2005
1417 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster



PostSat Feb 06, 10 11:03 am     Reply with quote

haha I never asked about me nor care what you think, Im just saying I could care less what a 50 year old windsurfer has to say about our sport. Never windsurfed, never wanted to, so why do I care what a windsurfer has to say about our sport that is most definitely nothing like windsurfing.
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