|
previous topic :: next topic |
| Author |
Message |
C Johnson
Since 17 Apr 2009
854 Posts
Seattle
Opinionated
|
 Fri Oct 23, 09 9:20 am |
 |
|
this whole global warming fiasco reminds me of a glass of ice water.
when it starts warming up. some of that polar ice breaks off and floats down into the drink to cool it back down again.
what a nice cycle  as long as we don't heat it faster then the ice can reform then we'll all have a nice ice cold beverage.
okay okay....maybe some of those low land coastal cities are F'ed. but the price of waterfront real estate these days is obsurd anyway. my plan is to buy a house up on the hill with the water view and it should be waterfront when the shit hits the fan
to quote the southpark michael jefferson "you're being ignorant! ooo hoo!"
oh yeah! and when we run out of ice. do like they did on futurama and just go get some more from another planet 
 |
| |
250px-GiantIceCube.jpg |
_________________
www.youtube.com/c/christianjohnsons |
|
|
pdxmonkeyboy
Since 16 May 2006
6081 Posts
forever labled as the
retired kiter & motorhead Unicorn Master
|
| Fri Oct 23, 09 11:55 am |
|
|
How do you debate something when upon hearing the oppositions points the person's response is "I don't think anyone knows what's going on". There are causes and effects that are easy to experience "if I stick my finger in a flame it hurts" and there are those that are difficult to directly experience.
Nobody knows is a cheap copout. If that is your opinion so be it. The stance of presenting yourself as having no opinion on the matter and then questioning the validity of something is kind of an oxymoron though.
I'm begging someone to answer this question for me. I'm serious as I think it would provide some insight for me. "how would emmiting 14,000 billion tons (sorry that is how it's measured) of co2 per YEAR into the atmoshere have no effect on anything?"
Is there not a cause and effect relationship for everything in the natural world? If you could name one i would love to hear it.
|
|
|
C Johnson
Since 17 Apr 2009
854 Posts
Seattle
Opinionated
|
| Fri Oct 23, 09 12:25 pm |
|
|
I agree there is an effect. I also agree it is important to know what that effect is. ignorance is bliss until a real problem arises and by that point it can be too late. Cause and effect analysis is difficult when the effect is not apparent and has never happened the same way twice.
I think the impossible question is that 14,000 billion tons of CO2 dumped into the atmosphere has an effect. the result is X number of degrees in increased average temperature globally.
how much of that temperature increase was caused by the 14,000 billon tons of CO2 added by mankind and the industrial revolution vs how much of that temperature increase is caused by outside variables or natural phenomenon. Maybe all of it was caused by people. Maybe none. I don't know but I think that would be very compelling information to have if someone does happen to have those figures.
theoretical calculations and simulations are nice but they are only estimates to a certain confidence level and they can be easily flawed. Real world evidence and quality unbiased statistical data presents the most compelling argument in my book.
_________________
www.youtube.com/c/christianjohnsons |
|
|
pjc
Since 06 Mar 2005
649 Posts
Addicted
|
| Fri Oct 23, 09 1:43 pm |
|
|
| well, freeman dyson is a nobel prize winning physicist who has been looking at CO2 since back when al gore was a pot smoking newlywed. his (dyson's) opinion on global warming is pretty much "nobody knows whats goings on - but it's surely not enough of a global health problem to warrant this kind of hysteria".
|
|
|
pdxmonkeyboy
Since 16 May 2006
6081 Posts
forever labled as the
retired kiter & motorhead Unicorn Master
|
| Fri Oct 23, 09 1:53 pm |
|
|
| pjc wrote: | | well, freeman dyson is a nobel prize winning physicist who has been looking at CO2 since back when al gore was a pot smoking newlywed. his (dyson's) opinion on global warming is pretty much "nobody knows whats goings on - but it's surely not enough of a global health problem to warrant this kind of hysteria". |
yeah.. but if your going to quote him, then quote his exact words..which don't really bode well for using Mr. Dyson as an argument that nobody knows what is going on as he himself has said that he knows little about the science of climate.
From wikipedia...
Global warming
Dyson agrees that anthropogenic global warming exists, and has written
One of the main causes of warming is the increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere resulting from our burning of fossil fuels such as oil and coal and natural gas.[21]
However, he has argued that existing simulation models of climate fail to account for some important factors, and hence the results will contain too much error to reliably predict future trends.
The models solve the equations of fluid dynamics, and they do a very good job of describing the fluid motions of the atmosphere and the oceans. They do a very poor job of describing the clouds, the dust, the chemistry and the biology of fields and farms and forests. They do not begin to describe the real world we live in...[21]
He is among signatories of a letter to the UN criticizing the IPCC [22][23][24] and has also argued against the ostracization of scientists whose views depart from the acknowledged mainstream of scientific opinion on climate change, stating that "heretics" have historically been an important force in driving scientific progress.
heretics who question the dogmas are needed... I am proud to be a heretic. The world always needs heretics to challenge the prevailing orthodoxies.[21]
More recently, he has endorsed the now common usage of "global warming" as synonymous with global anthropogenic climate change, referring to recent
measurements that transformed global warming from a vague theoretical speculation into a precise observational science.[25]
but has argued that political efforts to reduce the causes of climate change distract from other global problems that should take priority.
I'm not saying the warming doesn't cause problems, obviously it does. Obviously we should be trying to understand it. I'm saying that the problems are being grossly exaggerated. They take away money and attention from other problems that are much more urgent and important. Poverty, infectious diseases, public education and public health. Not to mention the preservation of living creatures on land and in the oceans.[26]
Dyson's views on global warming have been criticized as failing to understand the amount of carbon sequestration needed.[27] Dyson has proposed that whatever inflammations the climate was experiencing might be a good thing because carbon dioxide helps plants of all kinds grow. His caveat is that if CO2 levels soar too high, they could be soothed by the mass cultivation of specially bred carbon-eating trees". He calculates that it would take a trillion trees to remove all carbon from the atmosphere, which he believes in principle is quite feasible.[28]
Dyson is well-aware that his "heresy" on global warming has been strongly criticized. In reply, he notes that:
My objections to the global warming propaganda are not so much over the technical facts, about which I do not know much, but its rather against the way those people behave and the kind of intolerance to criticism that a lot of them have.[13]
|
|
|
C Johnson
Since 17 Apr 2009
854 Posts
Seattle
Opinionated
|
| Fri Oct 23, 09 2:09 pm |
|
|
no disrespect but I just don't take these discussions that seriously. yes there is lots of information out there. information to support almost anything you believe in if you seek it out. does it mean it is accurate. no but it could be. yes.
I understand my analogy was grossly over simplified and not very accurate. but it wasn't intended to be accurate it was intended to be a joke.
I don't really have the time nor patience to research it. But I do enjoy joking about it a little on here when I'm stuck at the office and its windy outside.
a totally different side of this is to consider the fact that green houses have to be pumped full of CO2 to help plants grow because currently there isn't enough CO2 around in regular air to allow plants to breath freely. just another thing to think about....
I think it would be great if they could nail it down soon and give us a higher confidence level of what is to come because it seems like there is a lot of money being burned up with all the fear of the unknown going on in the environment.
on a completely different subject from climate change. I think its ultra important to keep our streets clean. keep the air clean and overall minimize waste. not that I think it has anything to do directly with a potential imminent climate disaster waiting to happen but that it is just good to keep the earth clean. its our home after all, we shouldn't shit where we eat
or wait....is it....we should put our shit on our crops... and then eat them? I forget how it goes...haha sustainability....its cool to be P.C. hahahahahaha
_________________
www.youtube.com/c/christianjohnsons
Last edited by C Johnson on Fri Oct 23, 09 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
pjc
Since 06 Mar 2005
649 Posts
Addicted
|
| Fri Oct 23, 09 2:19 pm |
|
|
| that wiki page is somewhat selectively quoting dyson. he has stated repeatedly that he thinks global warming is no-where near the global health crisis that people seem to think it is, and that the climate modeling "industry" is churning out predictions that aren't even remotely trustworthy.
|
|
|
pkh
Since 27 Feb 2005
6549 Posts
Couve / Hood
Honored Founder
|
| Fri Oct 23, 09 2:47 pm |
|
|
"I'm not a fan of facts. You see, the facts can change, but my opinion will never change, no matter what the facts are."
- Stephen Colbert
|
|
|
K4L
Since 19 Jan 2009
483 Posts
Obsessed
|
| Fri Oct 23, 09 2:56 pm |
|
|
| pkh wrote: | "I'm not a fan of facts. You see, the facts can change, but my opinion will never change, no matter what the facts are."
- Stephen Colbert |
ROFL ...So true, of allmost everyone I meet
|
|
|
pdxmonkeyboy
Since 16 May 2006
6081 Posts
forever labled as the
retired kiter & motorhead Unicorn Master
|
| Fri Oct 23, 09 2:57 pm |
|
|
Classic bumper sticker I saw once.
"Don't believe everything that you think"
|
|
|
Blokt
Since 17 Nov 2008
196 Posts
Hamlin rocks, doody-root-tuders!
Stoked
|
| Fri Oct 23, 09 5:16 pm |
|
|
Global Warming, Climate Change, Homostrapuality, Armegeddon, Foil kite dominance.............whatever, dudels. All I know is we should take care of our planet no matter what we think is fact.
And if we can figure out a way to stop the dead zones, that would be way cool.
Anyway, peace-out y'alls 
|
|
|
blowhard
Since 26 Dec 2005
2027 Posts
Windward
|
| Fri Oct 23, 09 5:17 pm |
|
|
| Figures lie and liars figure
|
|
|
Blokt
Since 17 Nov 2008
196 Posts
Hamlin rocks, doody-root-tuders!
Stoked
|
| Fri Oct 23, 09 6:05 pm |
|
|
| go figure
|
|
|
Moto
Since 03 Sep 2006
2698 Posts
Still a gojo pimp!
Moto Mouth
|
| Fri Oct 23, 09 6:19 pm |
|
|
| Blokt wrote: | Global Warming, Climate Change, Homostrapuality, Armegeddon, Foil kite dominance.............whatever, dudels. All I know is we should take care of our planet no matter what we think is fact.
And if we can figure out a way to stop the dead zones, that would be way cool.
Anyway, peace-out y'alls |
Damn - that may be the first thing you've posted and I actually agree with (BTW - foils don't dominate!!! )
_________________
Still rockin gojos, *ssless chaps, and ankle weights! |
|
|
Blokt
Since 17 Nov 2008
196 Posts
Hamlin rocks, doody-root-tuders!
Stoked
|
| Fri Oct 23, 09 6:47 pm |
|
|
| Moto wrote: |
(BTW - foils don't dominate!!! ) |
I know......THEY RULE ! ! ! (especially the new Speed3 !!, but I'd have to auction off my 1st born to buy it, and I don't think he'd go along with it since he's almost 21 years old)
|
|
|
registered
Since 12 Jul 2005
1319 Posts
tsunami
Sandbagger
|
| Sat Oct 24, 09 7:03 am |
|
|
 live simply
|
|
|
Nak
Since 19 May 2005
4316 Posts
Camas
Site Lackey
CGKA Member
|
| Sat Oct 24, 09 8:14 am |
|
|
| Blokt wrote: | | All I know is we should take care of our planet no matter what we think is fact. |
Words to live by, liberal or conservative. 
|
|
|
|
