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pdxmonkeyboy
Since 16 May 2006
6081 Posts
forever labled as the
retired kiter & motorhead Unicorn Master
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 Thu Oct 22, 09 2:06 pm |
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| jasonq wrote: | "Stuff in the universe does not wear out as all matter can neither be created nor destroyed... "
i have to say, i continue to be disappointed by the state of science education.
of coarse matter can be created and destroyed. this is at the core of quantum mechanics and relativity.
Everybody has heard E=mc^2, describing how much energy results from destroying matter, or conversely how much energy it takes to create it.
Every nuclear bomb and power plant in the world operates by destroying matter. Not too mention all those stars.
We aren't as good at creating matter yet, but we have created both matter and anti-matter in particle colliders, if only for microseconds.
and of coarse for a brief time, the universe was nothing but energy, and no matter, and it may be again.
I expect i'll get flamed now. |
Get ready to be further dismayed..by your lack of scientific understanding. EMC2 is the exact equation that proves that matter (and energy as they are interchangable) is neither created or destroyed. Bombs and burning stuff is a conversion of matter and energy from one form to another, when you burn wood you are converting the wood (and oxygen) to heat, smoke, carbon, and a number of other gasses and particles and there is NO LOSS of matter or energy. Stars are fueled by the conversion of hydrogen to helium, the result of which converts the binding energy of those particles into heat, light, and radiation.
just google it if you don't believe me
I'm fairly certain that if someone disproved EMC2 we would have heard about it. |
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C Johnson
Since 17 Apr 2009
854 Posts
Seattle
Opinionated
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| Thu Oct 22, 09 2:19 pm |
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this thread is hilarious.
I want to add some fuel to the flames. so I understand people have an effect on global climate.
if I crank of my AC and turn the heat on at the same time yes I am directly effecting the environment (and my monthly power bill at that). BUT, here is where my question comes in. how much?
are humans the significant impact or are we just noise in amongst all the other forces at play?
I'm not even sure how you can determine that considering you can't exactly perform an experiment with humans on a global scale and then perform the same experiment without humans on the same scale.
man I can't wait to see where this goes. please please tear me up!
fyi. in case you didn't notice I like to play devils advocate.
For the record I think everyone has it wrong on all sides and its hilarious when people pretend like they actually know. With current data, I don't think we can move beyond speculation at this point. But that's just me, I could be totally wrong.
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Blokt
Since 17 Nov 2008
196 Posts
Hamlin rocks, doody-root-tuders!
Stoked
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| Thu Oct 22, 09 2:49 pm |
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Here's a quaint little tidbit.
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/64069232.html
I bet you guys won't let yourself read the whole article.
Oopsie, they said "God", they must be full of crap.
I think I'm 'bouts to be sensored again, huh pkh? |
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Blue
Since 03 Jul 2007
469 Posts
I used to be
Obsessed
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| Thu Oct 22, 09 3:00 pm |
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Dude, these arguments (on both sides) are soo .... 19th century.
“But we must not forget that, apart from the general prejudices against materialism common to all educated philistines, the most outstanding theoreticians are handicapped by a complete ignorance of dialectics.”
Any guess who wrote that? OK, it was V.I. Lenin. In 1908. ... yawn
Gravity though, that's entirely different matter. Gravity is a total hoax.
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just wear sunscreen |
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pdxmonkeyboy
Since 16 May 2006
6081 Posts
forever labled as the
retired kiter & motorhead Unicorn Master
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| Thu Oct 22, 09 3:07 pm |
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| C Johnson wrote: | this thread is hilarious.
I want to add some fuel to the flames. so I understand people have an effect on global climate.
if I crank of my AC and turn the heat on at the same time yes I am directly effecting the environment (and my monthly power bill at that). BUT, here is where my question comes in. how much?
are humans the significant impact or are we just noise in amongst all the other forces at play?
I'm not even sure how you can determine that considering you can't exactly perform an experiment with humans on a global scale and then perform the same experiment without humans on the same scale.
man I can't wait to see where this goes. please please tear me up!
fyi. in case you didn't notice I like to play devils advocate.
For the record I think everyone has it wrong on all sides and its hilarious when people pretend like they actually know. With current data, I don't think we can move beyond speculation at this point. But that's just me, I could be totally wrong. |
Its actually not that difficult to determine the net effect of you having the AC and heater on. The AC usage is measured in kilowatt hours and the power plants produce X amount of carbon dioxide and sulfur and all that other good stuff per kilowatt hour.
Same goes with your heater..it either burns natural gas, and oil and therefore has emissions or it uses electricity.
I think the central flaw in your thinking is that you think that somehow the actions of humans don't have an affect on the environment. Which is pretty silly to think that they don't. Beavers build dams, birds eat fruit and shit seeds and trees grow.. Its the same relationship. Humans are simply another species of mammal on the planet and we are subject to the same rules of nature as other species.
Its just the fact that bears don't heat their homes, drive cars, make shit out of plastic by mixing chemicals together etc. etc. etc. To think that somehow the effects of humans and the things they build and consume are inconsequential is really a little silly.
Walk through new york city once and say to yourself. None of this stuff has any effect on any part of the environment. Everything comes from someplace.... |
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C Johnson
Since 17 Apr 2009
854 Posts
Seattle
Opinionated
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| Thu Oct 22, 09 3:25 pm |
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I think you're missing the point. and for the record I didn't take a side. In fact I am agreeing with no sides currently. So for you to try and talk about the flaw with my side just tells me that you didn't really read what I said.
are people a significant factor. that is the question.
that volcano over there looks like a pretty good contender. so do those solar flares.
a second question. will it all spiral out of control and be the end of the world. Or will it go from one extreme to the other until it finally balances out?
personally I think heat wave then ice age then slowly back to normal again sounds like a pretty reasonable assumption.
what ever happened to global warming anyway? Now all we hear about is global climate change. I think its funny how a few years can totally change the name of that. Maybe next year it will be called something different. just another reason why I have minimal confidence that anybody truely knows what's going on. I there there is a lot of groups that claim to know so that they can collect the government funding. which helps our government look like it cares and has a heart since being green is the hip thing currently.
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www.youtube.com/c/christianjohnsons |
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pdxmonkeyboy
Since 16 May 2006
6081 Posts
forever labled as the
retired kiter & motorhead Unicorn Master
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| Thu Oct 22, 09 7:02 pm |
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Maybe the real question should be is ignorance bliss?
Seems like it's really working for some. |
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registered
Since 12 Jul 2005
1319 Posts
tsunami
Sandbagger
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| Thu Oct 22, 09 7:53 pm |
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Guess what dip-shizzzlet the world changes everyday.
Thank Jesus , the sun or some alknowing monkeyboy if you want to try and own it.
In the end trying to predict it will make you a fool, just enjoy it ,what ever it is, good or bad.
I hope this dead spot brings good wind and waves and I will try not to exceed last years personal carbon foot print by more than 75percent ...unless the claim has tax benefits. 
Lighten up ,keep it simple ,get a fricken C kite quiver and be happy.
So Anyone know if the new Yarga pros are as good as my Fuels |
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C Johnson
Since 17 Apr 2009
854 Posts
Seattle
Opinionated
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| Thu Oct 22, 09 8:21 pm |
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hmm. not sure anything will ever be as good as your fuels
and as far as this goes. I just find these thread funny. no harm intended. heck I might even learn something from them.
Ever try arguing against facts? Its no fun unless you're just being an A-hole
The best part about these threads is that there is very few if any facts. I tend to follow the philosophy it is nearly impossible to prove anything but only disprove things. A lot of people hate that philosophy because it never presents options but only eliminates them. But whatever, since when were we supposed to care what other people think.
So when are they going to come out with a 1 kite quiver C-kite? Now that would be killer!
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www.youtube.com/c/christianjohnsons |
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Montana Kite Sports
Since 09 Jun 2009
4 Posts
Missoula, MT
New Member
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| Thu Oct 22, 09 8:41 pm |
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| Quote: | | the most outstanding theoreticians are handicapped by a complete ignorance of dialectics.” |
But dialectics work to ignore the dialogics, and the dialogics of today's science suggest that if we can do something to slow down the effects that our industrial society has on global climate change, we probably should.
| Quote: | | what ever happened to global warming anyway? Now all we hear about is global climate change. I think its funny how a few years can totally change the name of that. Maybe next year it will be called something different. |
I'm pretty sure the world will last longer than the english language. I hope I live to see the day when the word "carbon footprint" is eradicated. |
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genek
Since 21 Jul 2006
2165 Posts
East Po
KGB
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| Thu Oct 22, 09 10:32 pm |
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| Chooch wrote: | | pkh wrote: | | Stupid scientists! I wish they'd just go back to doing useful stuff like making TVs bigger and curing the gay disease. |
I didn't know they were working on curing riding with straps  |
Haha, the pill is gonna hit FDA testing in 2010.
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The Slider Project, LLC
Support the cause!
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genek
Since 21 Jul 2006
2165 Posts
East Po
KGB
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| Thu Oct 22, 09 10:40 pm |
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| C Johnson wrote: | I tend to follow the philosophy it is nearly impossible to prove anything but only disprove things. A lot of people hate that philosophy because it never presents options but only eliminates them. But whatever, since when were we supposed to care what other people think.
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Perhaps you should then take a math or logic class where you can learn such wondrous things as formal proofs. QED
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The Slider Project, LLC
Support the cause!
http://www.sliderproject.com/ |
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C Johnson
Since 17 Apr 2009
854 Posts
Seattle
Opinionated
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| Thu Oct 22, 09 11:02 pm |
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Yeah I was interested in taking a logic class in college but it never happened 
Statistics and Design of Experiments were enough for me.
I used to wake up in the middle of the night after dreaming about my professor screaming Correlation is not Causation! hahaha
its been a few years though and I forgot most of it. I wish that stuff would have stuck better. I guess that's what happens when you don't use it though 
_________________
www.youtube.com/c/christianjohnsons |
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registered
Since 12 Jul 2005
1319 Posts
tsunami
Sandbagger
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| Fri Oct 23, 09 5:39 am |
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It is amazing how many FACTS hve been disprovin since I was in college paying money to learn them.
I wonder if my old professors are out there on the internet spewing thier ignorance around still. I believed them
Life is good , try and enjoy every minute of it while your breathing and free to do as you wish. |
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blowhard
Since 26 Dec 2005
2027 Posts
Windward
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| Fri Oct 23, 09 7:18 am |
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everything in life is a matter of opinion,
everyone is entitled to thier opinion
are ya keepin up?
not too hard is it?
Student without a thesis is like a fish without water.
or oxygen if you BELIEVE 
The first thing I do when reading scientific FACTS is decide weather I BELIEVE
Same thing religious folks do 
Science by it's nature is only waiting to be disproved
RANDOM CHAOS NOW!(everything is just the way it's supposed to be)
Why wait? |
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brass
Since 15 Jul 2006
152 Posts
Stoked
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| Fri Oct 23, 09 7:51 am |
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| C Johnson wrote: | I think you're missing the point. and for the record I didn't take a side. In fact I am agreeing with no sides currently. So for you to try and talk about the flaw with my side just tells me that you didn't really read what I said.
are people a significant factor. that is the question.
that volcano over there looks like a pretty good contender. so do those solar flares.
a second question. will it all spiral out of control and be the end of the world. Or will it go from one extreme to the other until it finally balances out?
personally I think heat wave then ice age then slowly back to normal again sounds like a pretty reasonable assumption.
what ever happened to global warming anyway? Now all we hear about is global climate change. I think its funny how a few years can totally change the name of that. Maybe next year it will be called something different. just another reason why I have minimal confidence that anybody truely knows what's going on. I there there is a lot of groups that claim to know so that they can collect the government funding. which helps our government look like it cares and has a heart since being green is the hip thing currently. |
I am not sure who is really missing the point. It is not that difficult to reconstruct a profile of average global temperatures for the hundred thousand years and beyond (though it does require some faith in the scientific method). When you look at it, it is clear that there are many periods of heating and cooling that occurred before and after the first homonids came around. What has people concerned is the observation that the recent trend of the rise in average global temps (since the industrial revolution) is more rapid than at any other time. While correlation does not necessarily equal causation, what else do we have to go on? Should I wander around the world handcuffed by 'the chicken or the egg' or should I take some action in my life?
I think that climate change has become preferable these days because of the broad types of changes in the global patterns that are becoming evident as a result of 'global warming.' For example, a rise in global temperatures will lead to a melting of polar ice caps which then will cool the North Atlantic. This in turn could cause the Gulf Stream to be pushed farther south. Colder water in the North Atlantic then effects precipitation patterns in Europe. It is possible that Europe will become colder and drier.
Whether you buy into the science or not, is it not easy enough to ask yourself what you might do to lessen your impact on the world? Carpool to your next session or not buy new kites every year. If you don't like thinking about how your actions affect global weather patterns would it be easier to think about how they affect other people? Such a cliche but..live simply so that others may simply live. You can still be true to yourself and enjoy life in this way. |
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SalmonSlayer
Since 27 Nov 2005
648 Posts
Addicted
CGKA Member
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| Fri Oct 23, 09 8:46 am |
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Our two biggest problems have been solved.
I have found the answer to saving the planet and solving the "dog on the sandbar" problem at the same time.
Save the planet: eat a dog?
"The eco-pawprint of a pet dog is twice that of a 4.6-litre Land Cruiser driven 10,000 kilometres a year, researchers have found.
Victoria University professors Brenda and Robert Vale, architects who specialize in sustainable living, say pet owners should swap cats and dogs for creatures they can eat, such as chickens or rabbits, in their provocative new book Time to Eat the Dog: The real guide to sustainable living."......
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/national/2987821/Save-the-planet-eat-a-dog |
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