¨lofting¨

fredf · Since 10 Jan 2009 80 Posts Eugene. Or

This will be seen as basic by the experts but as a relative newcomer to kiteboarding with quite a lot of time flying kites over land I´m trying to come to some conclusion about the feared term ¨lofting¨. After the rather detailed discussion on this forum re: the recent Stevie incident I am going to stick my neck out and try to define what I see as the real lofting issue because the kitesurfing literature talks mostly about themals, updrafts, unstable cells, etc. suggesting air currents rising straight up. I doubt that this is a frequent cause of lofting but rather it is a stall of the kite overhead allowing it to fall powerless out of the wind window and then at some point on the way down it powers up again and rockets upward with max force and consequences. Of course if it powers up in a more horizontal direction it could be equally devastating but wouldn´t be seen as a ¨lofting¨. The real reason then to not fly your kite straight overhead after launch is not to avoid those alleged vertical currents but to limit the chance the kite will drift back out of the power zone, stalling and then falling limp, vulnerable to re-powering up with slack lines. Obviously gusty conditions make the stall and then the sudden fly up much more likely.

If I am correct then I hope other newcomers can use this to focus on the real problem instead of wasting time worrying about some illogical wind that goes from the ground straight up to the kite and then lifts you.

FlyDunes · Since 09 Oct 2007 1034 Posts Aloha XTreme Poster

IMHO, I think that there are three main circumstances that are going to cause a kiter to get "unexpectedly" boosted up into the air.

#1 Being significantly overpowered. The power that the wind makes is equal to the SQUARE of it's speed. That's also something that all kiters should understand and respect. Flying kites safely in strong conditions takes skill and experience.

#2 Rotor. If you don't understand the concept of rotor, the conditions that cause rotor, and how dangerous rotor is, then you shouldn't kite until you do. Find a qualified instructor.

#3 Significant over development (towering Cu Nims). Ditto on the above.

f0rgiv3n · Since 26 Jan 2009 6 Posts Kook

lofting is the term for the action of being lifted off the ground unexpectantly(is that a word? lol). There can be lots of causes for this action:

yes it can be the kite collapsing and then powering back up in the window.

However; when people are saying don't idle the kite at zenith they say this because of gusts. If the kite is above you and you receive a huge gust then "loft!"

Personally, i think those two are the most common causes for a loft.

Kraemer · Since 24 Apr 2006 1735 Posts Sky Pilot Unicorn Captain

jackZ · Since 13 Apr 2008 355 Posts Devon Alberta ca. Obsessed

To loft or not to loft
Ya it's scary when all of a sudden your legs are dangling without you wanting that to happen , or worse .
I got bit several times like that with my foil kite , it fell out of the window and lit up again and Oh my god , yanked is a better word and fear to try again as a beginner .
The window gets narrower as the wind speed slows . When you get a foil too far to the edge it will collapse and fall , as it's falling it's going back into the power zone and then it catches the wind opens up and the power is extreme and you had better unhook or be prepared to go for a real fast but usually not too far a ride and if you don't do the right thing at this point it will take off and loop or yank you again . This is probably the rotor thing !
I bought the sle bow kite and just letting go of the bar is usually safety as the kite will go up to the zenith and then slowly fall down until you get ahold of the bar and power up again . I don't want anyone thinking that there aren't any dangers with bow kites but I sure feel like I'm safer with them .
I was taught that it's generally safer ( if you have to fly static ) to keep the kite at the edge of the window to prevent lofting . There are always different situations though .
I was also taught that when you first rig up you can fly the kite overhead and pull the bar halfway . If the wind is gusty and you can control it all is ok to fly but if you push the bar ahead to kill the power and still pulled up onto your toes you had better rig up a smaller kite . Maybe just hooking the lines on the knots further away from the kite would be good enough .

fredf · Since 10 Jan 2009 80 Posts Eugene. Or

pdxmonkeyboy · Thu May 28, 09 1:11 pm

I'll dumb it down for you and our local conditions.

A. the wind window gets larger and smaller when the wind decreases and increases.

B. Lofting in the past was mostly associated with a sudden gust of wind which increased the size of the wind window so that your kite parked at 12 on the very edge of the window is now IN the window and you got lofted because old kites didn't depower.

C. New kites and their ability to depower, for the most part, have reduced this risk of lofting to the extent that most people don't worry about lofting.

D. lofting or yarding..more specifically, getting your shit yarded hard.. can also occur from the window shrinking, your kite backstalling and fallling out of the window, and then powering up. IF YOUR KITE BACK STALLS AND THERE ARE HAZARDS DOWN WIND OF YOU , PULL YOUR RELEASE.

E. Everyone is taught not to park their kites at 12 but allot of people don't worry about it. In normal conditions you don't really have to.

F. if it is very gusty out, or your flying a C kite, or there are hazards or lots of people near you, or you don't have a bunch of time under your belt (which makes you better able to deal with potentially hazardous situations). keep your kite parked below 9 oclock.

I've been kiting for 5 years, and I have saved myself before, during and after a lofting by releasing my kite (I think there is still probably a patch of skin stuck on some willow shrubs at rooster from my 2004 nightmare lofting). I have never been seriously injured kiting but I have decided not to kite anymore until I find out what the Phuck rotoring is. Rolling Eyes

mschulz · Since 29 May 2007 530 Posts Reno, NV Addicted

After realizing that I should no longer kite until I too understood "Rotor" I looked it up on Wikipedia.

a rotating part of a mechanical device, for example in an electric motor, generator, alternator or pump.
In engineering:

Rotor (electric), the non-stationary part of an alternator or electric motor, operating with a stationary element called the stator.
Helicopter rotor, the rotary wing(s) of a rotorcraft such as a helicopter
ROTOR, a former radar project in the UK following the Second World War
Rotor (turbine), the rotor of a turbine powered by fluid pressure
Rotor (crank), a variable-angle bicycle crank
Rotor (brake), the disc of a disc brake, in U.S. terminology
Rotor (distributor), a component of the ignition system of an internal combustion engine
Rotor (engine), the rotary piston in a rotary combustion engine
Rotor (antenna), an electric motor that rotates an antenna to the direction of transmission or reception
In computing:

Rotor machine, the rotating wheels used in certain cipher machines, such as the German Enigma machine
Rotor (software project), the former code name for Microsoft's shared source implementation of its Common Language Infrastructure
In medicine:

Rotor syndrome, a rare liver disorder
In music:

Rotor (band), a German progressive stoner rock band
Rotor (label), a Swedish record label publishing, among other things, music for silent films
In biology and chemistry:

The rotating part of a centrifuge, which also holds the samples
In other fields:

SC Rotor Volgograd, a Russian football club
Rotor (Sonic the Hedgehog), a fictional character from the Sonic the Hedgehog universe
Rotor (ride), the trade name for an amusement ride
Rotor (meteorology), a turbulent horizontal vortex that forms in the trough of lee waves
Rotor (mathematics), an n-blade object in geometric algebra, which rotates another n-blade object about a fixed or translated point
Curl (mathematics), known as rotor in some countries, a vector operator that shows a vector field's rate of rotation
Rotor, a space colony in Isaac Asimov's book Nemesis
R.O.T.O.R., a 1989 science fiction/action movie
Vibrator (sex toy), a Japanese usage of similar sounds in English. Also spelt as rotar.

melokitegirl · Since 28 Oct 2008 396 Posts Where the wind blows Obsessed

Well said PDX_MB.

I call it the "oh shit" not good moment. AND yes, I have been "yarded" many times. The back loft is terrifying.

I learned a bit on this topic. Thanks.

Kook kook a choo,

M.

tstansbury · Since 06 Jun 2006 649 Posts Rowena and P.C Addicted

I for sure don't miss the days of the 2 line teabaging. 20 lbs of lfb dangling off your ankle and the kite pulling streight up hard enough to snap the leg straps on a windsurfing butt harness.

Sella · Thu May 28, 09 3:04 pm

Monkey's points are very valid and as you fly more they will make more sense so practice..practice...practice.

2-line Trainers give you the basics of wind window, stall and power zone but 4-line kites give you finesse and control you will need to know how to offset wind or self-induced "over-flying" changes that you will do often until your flying skills improve.

Do not think if you're a trainer kite flying ace you are ready for a 12M 4-line in the water. The more you fly the more you will be able to know WHEN you can save it along with knowing when to punch out early because once you get shot out of the cannon......you will not be able to react much....if at all....and it's always fun when the cannon reloads as you're facing backwards doing your best rag-doll impression across the water, beach, parking lot etc.

Kiting is a balance of constant multi-tasking focus so fly small kites until your bored because then the waves, wind, board, other riders, barges, and sharks will be another thing that will demand you attention beside your "engine" 25 meters above your head. Or if your Bonetti...15 meters. Very Happy

Luv ya Dogg!!!

One simple tip that I see every new guy/gal do is they overfly the window and choke the kite with the bar pulled all the way in and they wonder why the kite won't fly because "I'm giving her all the power being pulled in right????. Wrong. If you have the bar pulled all the way in on the edge of the window you've exhausted your power and your kite is out of gas. She will overfly the window and be upwind you, stall and luff back in the window with loose lines...until they tighten up and then you get a cannon shot because your new and you still have your bar pulled in trying to steer like a drunk bus driver.

Think of the kite as "breathing". Pushing the bar OUT opens up the kite and let's her breath...aka...float and typically she will gradually lift back in the window and back to neutral waiting for her next command. Pulling the bar in will tighten your lines, give you great steering and movement to generate power but NOT if you overfly the window.

If you're new stay in the 10:00 to 2:00 range and start your turn at 12:00. It's much easier to fly in power then on the edge of the window until you've improved and can handle 9:00 - 3:00 speed and conditions. Same bar concept applies if you Hindenburg at 12:00 above your head because newbies will unknowingly fly the kite DIRECTLY above their head as you look down to find your board thinking "How in the hell am I going to get my feet in this". Push the bar out...let her breath...float back in the window and then SLOWLY tighten the bar to tease her between 11:00 and 1:00 until you're ready with your board.

Think slow relaxed bar movements and ALWAYS be ready to punch out. It will become very intuitive and natural and everyone that sticks with it, after they have taken lessons, will eventually replace the fear factor with the fun factor.

Rotor???? Have no idea. But Dunes rips so you're always learning something new.

Scribble · Since 18 Nov 2005 636 Posts NoPo Addicted

pdxmonkeyboy · Thu May 28, 09 4:00 pm

fredf · Since 10 Jan 2009 80 Posts Eugene. Or

[quote="jackZ"]
I got bit several times like that with my foil kite , it fell out of the window and lit up again and Oh my god , yanked is a better word and fear to try again as a beginner .
The window gets narrower as the wind speed slows . When you get a foil too far to the edge it Iwill collapse and fall , as it's falling it's going back into the power zone and then it catches the wind opens up and the power is extreme and you had better unhook or be prepared to go for a real fast but usually not too far a ride and if you don't do the right thing at this point it will take off and loop or yank you again . This is probably the rotor thing !
I bought the sle bow kite and just letting go of the bar is usually safety as the kite will go up to the zenith and then slowly fall down until you get ahold of the bar and power up again . I don't want anyone thinking that there aren't any dangers with bow kites but I sure feel like I'm safer with them .

Interesting comments on the foil kite jackZ. Other than trainer kites I've always flown LEIs, even on land. I was recently thinking about picking up a foil kite to try something new since they are supposed to have certain advantages, like easier to launch on land, more durable and cheaper but now I'm having second thoughts. Can't you use a depower bar on a foil like on an inflatable? Any other thoughts?

Blue · Since 03 Jul 2007 469 Posts I used to be Obsessed

FlyDunes · Since 09 Oct 2007 1034 Posts Aloha XTreme Poster

blowhard · Since 26 Dec 2005 2025 Posts Windward

gusts, rotor or ?
The solution to being yanked is to keep your lines tight ,
I see so many acting as though they can do whatever they want by standing still and using thier control bar ,
try moving around to keep lines tight , (I run )just like flying a one string kite.

Any type of uncontrollable situation CAN be recognized by and expierenced kiter and the kite can be discharged.

This is my first reaction.
After my hand is on the release ,I then evaluate wheather I can make it work.

Lofting to me would be from an updraft close to the ground (thermal)

Of course you can get air by gusts or sudden windshifts If the kite is high
but I wouldn't call it being associated with a updraft nessarily

Thermals are unorganized near the surface and hard to get organized with a lot of wind and ground disturbance until they are further up in the atomosphere
,
so some rotor is associated with low level thermals (dust devils)
they are called devils for a reason
but mostly rotor comes from objects on the ground and the shadow behind them

Until you have flown through the back side(rotor) of a mountian wave (standing Lenticular clouds ) you really haven't lived (scary).

The idea of keeping your kite low will minimize the kites ability to to yank you
UP,
which is likely to hurt when you come down in a state of panic
being drug sideways is much preferable
If you haven't made the connection to release.

Water and wind can resemble each other, just watch the eddies and the flow around objects ,wind is doing the same thing around objects

Passive safety would dictate (to me) that any launch that doesn't provide a way out (for both me and my gear)
is unacceptable
so most of the gorge is safe from me ever kiting there
have fun
be safe
don't crack your noggin
Cool