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Scribble
Since 18 Nov 2005
636 Posts
NoPo
Addicted
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 Wed Jan 21, 09 8:48 am Slingshot T2 14 meter question |
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Have any of you found a mod to the bridle or something that reduces bar pressure?
The 14 is a nice lightwind kite, but if you use the stopper ball it's almost impossible to kill the power by edging and you get overpowered. If you don't use the stopper ball you get tired really quickly. Especially my lower back.
I'm curious if anyone knows something I don't. I can kite with other kites all day and I feel nothing in my lower back, but after a short session with the t2 my back gets tired.
Andy |
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bulae99
Since 12 Jul 2006
1692 Posts
XTreme Poster
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| Wed Jan 21, 09 9:05 am Yes.......and the mod is.......... |
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Buy a Rev 14!
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Hey, I'm being hahahahahrassed! |
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Jackal
Since 17 Dec 2005
147 Posts
WS
Stoked
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| Wed Jan 21, 09 9:41 am |
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I only use the 14 T2 in warm tropical conditions, which must have a soothing effect on my back because I've never noticed it. Plus the steady winds allow me to use the stopper ball.
I just flew the Rev 13 and it may have had less pull, but it didn't generate as much power as the T2. Not sure about the 15 in terms of power, but it will have less bar pressure.
I think thats just par for the course with a humungous bow kite- but if there's a mod I'd love to hear it. I think it is called the T3. |
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Scribble
Since 18 Nov 2005
636 Posts
NoPo
Addicted
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| Wed Jan 21, 09 9:57 am |
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I'm not buying a new kite. I bought this t2 last season and used it like 5 times. I would like to keep it just so I don't get skunked. I'm in baja right now and its been a good kite for the sunset session as the wind dies down. Or in the morning before it comes up. If I had 1400 dollars to drop on a new kite I would, but unless I win the lottery it will not happen.
Andy |
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Pete
Since 29 Oct 2007
844 Posts
Opinionated
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| Wed Jan 21, 09 10:03 am |
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| Jackal wrote: |
I think thats just par for the course with a humungous bow kite- but if there's a mod I'd love to hear it. I think it is called the T3. |
Does the T3 really have that noticable of a decrease in bar pressure? Thought that part didn't change between the T2 and T3. |
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blowhard
Since 26 Dec 2005
2027 Posts
Windward
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| Wed Jan 21, 09 10:04 am |
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I was told that old dudes always complain about thier backs
so it may be just you  |
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Scribble
Since 18 Nov 2005
636 Posts
NoPo
Addicted
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| Wed Jan 21, 09 10:08 am |
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My other kites with less bar pressure do not make my back hurt. I will agree that I'm probably just out of shape, but if their is anything out there to make me like the kite better than I already do that would be sweet.
I know that people are always doing mods to their Waroo bridles so I was just wondering if anyone had played with the T2 bridle. |
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Wind Slither
Since 04 Mar 2005
2624 Posts
The 503
METAL
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| Wed Jan 21, 09 10:43 am |
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The T2/T3 14M is just a big pig of a kite. All the Turbo's take work to turn, and that's why I perfer the Rev's for all but your biggest kite. The Rev 15m (yeah nice tip on the "Rev 14M" Bulae,  ) may turn (slightly) easier/faster but doesn't have the same power.
I have the T3 and I've heard that rigging the T3 in 1:1 mode vs. the out of the box 2:1 mode only makes the bar pressure worse.
Seriously, my old 20M Torch flew nicer than the T3 14m (I think they are the same size in reality). But the T3 will stay more forward in the window thus keeping you up wind better. Plus the T3 has better range and depower when the wind comes up.
If you're going to be flying your big kite a lot you better condition your back in the gym!  |
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Nak
Since 19 May 2005
4312 Posts
Camas
Site Lackey
CGKA Member
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| Wed Jan 21, 09 10:57 am |
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You can get a minor, but noticeable, decrease in bar pressure on the T2. (At least I noticed it, maybe it was just in my head.  ) Switch your lines to 800# spectra. If you have a T3, I believe the fronts already are, so just switch the steering lines.
With bow kites, there's a lot of bar pressure, everybody knows this. Enough so that there is a fair amount of stretch in the lines. Let's say you pull on the bar enough so that you move it 5 inches. Have you applied a 5 inch input to the kite? No. Subtract additional line stretch from the 5 inches to come up with actual input to the kite. If the line stretches an additional inch, you've only made a 4 inch input to the kite. If you reduce line stretch, you reduce the effort needed to control the kite. Think of it this way. Part of your effort is going in to stretch the line. If you reduce line stretch you reduce total effort expended.
I've played around with this some, and taken a few measurements. I'm pretty sure the reduction of effort is around 10% for a T2, or any typical bow kite. Smaller percentage for lower bar pressure kites. (Line stretch versus total input is smaller, so reducing line stretch has a smaller effect on total effort change.)
One other thing: If your back is giving you problems, try switching footpads as well. At the beginning of last Summer I was having back pain so bad after riding that I was missing sessions for days after. Both the LF luxury pads and the NSI/Hein double stuff pads eliminated the problem.
Good luck! |
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bulae99
Since 12 Jul 2006
1692 Posts
XTreme Poster
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| Wed Jan 21, 09 2:28 pm Dude the 14 meter Rev is the lightest bar |
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pressure you can get. If you sell your t2 and it's good shape you can get an almost new Rev 14 for like 600 bones.
If you mod the 14's bridal you can't sell it for the money you have in it.
At least demo the 14 Rev. I flew the 14 td2 in the gorge and loved it, but the bar pressure is there.
I tried the REv 14 and it was like a differnt world.
My o
_________________
Hey, I'm being hahahahahrassed! |
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Pete
Since 29 Oct 2007
844 Posts
Opinionated
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| Wed Jan 21, 09 2:38 pm Re: Dude the 14 meter Rev is the lightest bar |
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| bulae99 wrote: | pressure you can get. If you sell your t2 and it's good shape you can get an almost new Rev 14 for like 600 bones.
If you mod the 14's bridal you can't sell it for the money you have in it.
At least demo the 14 Rev. I flew the 14 td2 in the gorge and loved it, but the bar pressure is there.
I tried the REv 14 and it was like a differnt world.
My o |
Dude, there's no such thing as a Rev 14!
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blowhard
Since 26 Dec 2005
2027 Posts
Windward
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| Wed Jan 21, 09 3:53 pm |
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| Nak wrote: | You can get a minor, but noticeable, decrease in bar pressure on the T2. (At least I noticed it, maybe it was just in my head. ) Switch your lines to 800# spectra. If you have a T3, I believe the fronts already are, so just switch the steering lines.
With bow kites, there's a lot of bar pressure, everybody knows this. Enough so that there is a fair amount of stretch in the lines. Let's say you pull on the bar enough so that you move it 5 inches. Have you applied a 5 inch input to the kite? No. Subtract additional line stretch from the 5 inches to come up with actual input to the kite. If the line stretches an additional inch, you've only made a 4 inch input to the kite. If you reduce line stretch, you reduce the effort needed to control the kite. Think of it this way. Part of your effort is going in to stretch the line. If you reduce line stretch you reduce total effort expended.
I've played around with this some, and taken a few measurements. I'm pretty sure the reduction of effort is around 10% for a T2, or any typical bow kite. Smaller percentage for lower bar pressure kites. (Line stretch versus total input is smaller, so reducing line stretch has a smaller effect on total effort change.)
One other thing: If your back is giving you problems, try switching footpads as well. At the beginning of last Summer I was having back pain so bad after riding that I was missing sessions for days after. Both the LF luxury pads and the NSI/Hein double stuff pads eliminated the problem.
Good luck! |
Or it could be from the increase in the AOA by the added drag of the heavier lines
Also try leaning back and arching your back instead of leaning forward |
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Bailey
Since 13 Apr 2008
87 Posts
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| Wed Jan 21, 09 5:04 pm |
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You can get a used 15 Rev for $700 and they have light bar pressure and are fast for a big kite, bite the bullet and do it  |
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Nak
Since 19 May 2005
4312 Posts
Camas
Site Lackey
CGKA Member
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| Wed Jan 21, 09 5:06 pm |
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| blowhard wrote: |
Or it could be from the increase in the AOA by the added drag of the heavier lines
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My guess is that would be pretty negligible, zero if you replace both front and back lines. One of these days I'm going to measure the difference in drag between the lines. |
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blowhard
Since 26 Dec 2005
2027 Posts
Windward
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| Thu Jan 22, 09 8:31 am |
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| Nak wrote: | | blowhard wrote: |
Or it could be from the increase in the AOA by the added drag of the heavier lines
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My guess is that would be pretty negligible, zero if you replace both front and back lines. One of these days I'm going to measure the difference in drag between the lines. |
Great let me know when you get the wind tunnel set up,  I want to try some things too
Wouldn't the added weight/drag set the kite back in the window thus creating a higher AOA and easing some of the bar pressure?
My guess is that in a kite that flies on it's nose like the t-diesel it would
negate some of the tendancy to fly forward and cause it to pull harder by not letting it come as far into the front of the window without any input? |
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chanson
Since 31 Jan 2006
1874 Posts
WISCONSIN
Chimey
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| Thu Jan 22, 09 2:16 pm |
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ANdy,
Why don't you sell the SS and get another(bigger) Royal kite...say 14m ERA or 13m SOLO....?  (winking, but not actually joking)
you gonna get to the classic this weekend..?
if so, talk with Simone and/or Ryan...demo, demo, demo....!!!
oh, and the back thing...just get rid of that BOW and you'll be fine..
like slither said... they are just big pigs.., not just SS, but all larger sized BOWS.
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Shallow Dive Design, 2nd Wind Sports, Airush, Trident Sports |
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Nak
Since 19 May 2005
4312 Posts
Camas
Site Lackey
CGKA Member
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| Sun Jan 25, 09 12:01 pm |
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| blowhard wrote: | Great let me know when you get the wind tunnel set up, I want to try some things too
Wouldn't the added weight/drag set the kite back in the window thus creating a higher AOA and easing some of the bar pressure?
My guess is that in a kite that flies on it's nose like the t-diesel it would
negate some of the tendency to fly forward and cause it to pull harder by not letting it come as far into the front of the window without any input? |
I Think you could measure the difference between the two lines pretty accurately with just a force gauge. Someplace open and windy, like the beach. Just hook one end to a truck & hook the other end to a force gauge. Alternate between the two lines till you have a good reading. You'd want to record readings for a range of wind velocity, so it might take a while to accomplish. This test wouldn't measure the loads seen inflight very well, but I think you could get a very accurate idea of the difference between the two lines. Something to do post session.
This is purely a guess on my part, but I don't think the difference in drag would cause much of a noticeable effect. Maybe when the kite is fully sheeted out. Once the kite is loaded up, I think the additional drag would be a pretty small percentage of total lift. The kites that come from the factory with 800# line don't seem to sit back in the window at all...
Probably the best test would be to fly two identical kites side by side with different line-sets. See if one sits back noticeably more than the other. Then swap line sets & repeat. (To account for possible differences in the kites.) |
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