OT: Coming this January

forrest · Fri Dec 12, 08 8:36 am

I know it's easy for us to sit over here and point fingers. We aren't Detroit and we won't be as burdened by the massive amount of workers without jobs. The fact remains that these weren't competitive businesses and they needed to fail. Thank geezus someone saw through the bullshit.

I think Toyota is fully capable of building us Humvies.

Pete · Since 29 Oct 2007 843 Posts Opinionated

Don't count your failed chickens just yet. Politics have a way of reviving even the most dead, and the most idiotic schemes.

forrest · Fri Dec 12, 08 9:21 am

Round 3! Flight!

Kodiak · Since 01 Aug 2005 1114 Posts Slidey

I agree with a lot of what is said in this thread. However I am a bit dissapointed in everyone with how this is turning out. The fact that things have to get this bad to recognize a problem is a bit absurd. Where to even start.

1. I wonder why America has so many useless laws around what kind of cars can and can't be sold in the US. As I understand it there are several cars sold by US automakers in Europe that won't pass safety standards here, but are great sellers over there. I am pretty sure that if you can sell a car in Europe you should be able to sell it here. Sort of like all the silly regulations around diesel.

2. I want to understand why unions are so retarded that they will not put a pay cut plan in place to match non-union workers as opposed to the alternative which is lose your job entirely. I mean really how shotsited is that. Unions definitely have a place, but inevitably they tend to get greedy.

3. I am very upset that Congress didn't pass a bill to help the automakers. Why do you ask? Because inevitably the White House will bail them out, and GW will probably just hand them money with probably 1/10th of the strings attached that congress would.

I am all for capitalism and businesses failing if they can't make it. This is an unusual time in our history however and I would hate to see millions of people lose there jobs at a time when our economy is already very fragile. The amount of money tied up in the auto industry is staggering and I don't think the effects of its collapse at this point can be underestimated.

forrest · Fri Dec 12, 08 9:34 am

Reorganization through bankruptcy will fix the problem for the most part. The airlines went through it, and are doing better. The unions will most likely be dissolved, and that's what I think the fight is about.

blowhard · Since 26 Dec 2005 2027 Posts Windward

Kodiak · Since 01 Aug 2005 1114 Posts Slidey

pdxmonkeyboy · Fri Dec 12, 08 10:05 am

Kodiak makes some good points. Actually, I think that some of the unions have actually taken pay cuts. While some Euro cars won't meet safety standards, I do remember hearing that US market cars can not be sold in Asia and parts of Europe because they do not meet fuel efficiency standards.

While part of me is very worried about the effects on the economy if these companies disappear there is anther part of me that realizes that this is how industrialized nations evolve over time. The writing has been on the wall (at least the left leaning walls in my house) for awhile that there will be a fundamental shift from everyone driving everywhere. yeah, gas is dirt cheap now but it is not going to stay that way for long. People will loose jobs and some of those people will turn to Budweiser and beating their wives and some will pick themselves up and find new jobs. Who knows, maybe some of those people will start building wind turbines or something. Allot of visionaries foresee many green collar jobs for working class people in the future. The bottom line is that building shitty cars with short life expectancies and poor gas mileage is a poor business model. Huh? who would have thunk it?

The economic hit probably wouldn't be so bad if people hadn't wasted their money on new cars in the first place. What? you can't drive a 5 year old car? I think at times people don't realize how insidious and marketing driven the desire for a new car is. Just about EVERY commercial break has a car ad. Maybe they will just be toyota and honda ads now?

Moto · Since 03 Sep 2006 2698 Posts Still a gojo pimp! Moto Mouth

pdxmonkeyboy · Fri Dec 12, 08 10:48 am

pjc · Since 06 Mar 2005 649 Posts Addicted

forrest · Fri Dec 12, 08 11:06 am

My gas guzzling Toyota 4runner has 141,000 miles. It's practically brand new and has at least another 100k in it. I aint selling that thing anytime soon!

Kodiak · Since 01 Aug 2005 1114 Posts Slidey

I do think that there are quite a few people out there that rightfully should feel the pain of bankruptcy. I was listening to a chat on the radio today with the question would you take a pay cut if it would save your job or someone elses job?

A union worker from Ohio called in and said well they already were taking a big cut. He said they made $28 dollars an hour and next year were going to have to pay in $1 out of there pocket for retiring union workers. I almost spit out my cornflakes from laughing. Now, I am sure there are thousands of union workers out ther that would gladly take a pay cut to save a company or get inline with what the rest of the industy is paying and those are the people taht will get screwed.

The people I feel bad for are the ones that own/work at the dealerships. They are pretty much all independent and will basically be out of work because of this debacle. Actually though spending money on new cars or new anything is not inherintly bad as long as you ahve the money. If you buy new things it helps grow the economy and creat jobs for others. It is when you borrow against money you can't hope to ever make to purchase things taht gets you and the country in trouble. We are now basically all going the other way. Save money, more businesses go under, more people lose jobs, less money to spend. Downward spiral.

To another point. I am one of those folks that was looking at buying a new vehicle when gas prices were super high. I was looking at a jetta diesel wagon to save on gas prices and you actually get a nice tax credit. However I will make my trooper last a while longer now that gas is cheap and my wife is jobless.

genek · Since 21 Jul 2006 2165 Posts East Po KGB

My Subbie's got 130k and going strong (as long as my "fixes" don't break it).

Moto · Since 03 Sep 2006 2698 Posts Still a gojo pimp! Moto Mouth

95 Geo prizm - 150,000 miles!! I got duct tape on the bumpers to keep them from falling off!! - but I get around 33 miles to the gallon on the highway

Kodiak · Since 01 Aug 2005 1114 Posts Slidey

I made an edit to my last post but it didnt take. ONe other thing to think about. Buying a enw car every few years is not inherently bad, if you ahve the money and want to spend it on that. Hell ahlf of us on this forum spend a few grand every/every other eyar on kite stuff. Some people might call that crazy. Spending money helps fuel the economy and create jobs. It is when you spend money you don't have or could never even hope to make that you get in trouble.

Now we are currently in the reverse situation. No one wants to spend money, so the economy shrinks, jobs are lost, less money to spend. It is a nice downward spiral. I hope that new markets are created out of this, and I think they will e. I just hope it doesn't take 5 years for that to happen.

Nak · Fri Dec 12, 08 3:30 pm

'92 Chevy Blazer, 196,000 miles and still in awsome shape! Lots of heavy towing and 4 wheeling in those miles. I've only ever had to do regular maintanennce and replaced the alternator once. Detroit can build them good when they choose to...