22 vs 25 m lines

jcohenx · Since 28 Aug 2007 250 Posts Portland Obsessed

I recently purchased new lines for my 9 m Best. These new lines have detachable ends that allow the user to unhitch the last 3 m of each line to convert from 25 to 22 meters. I know that shorter lines reduce the amount of torque needed to turn the kite but what's the downside? A friend told me that you need more wind but isn't the amount of wind needed dictated by the size of the canopy?

thanks,

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6549 Posts Couve / Hood Honored Founder

I have a set of 20m and a set of 23m that I alternate between depending on wind.

20m Pros:
Better in gusty wind, easier to depower
Kite doesn't surge in power as much, nice for strapless
More responsive, nicer for waves
Easier to launch/setup (less line to deal with)

20m Cons:
Little less low end because the kite is not up as high and you can't work it
Can't boost as good, landing is harder

23m Pros:
More low end, easier jumping

23m Cons:
More to manage in gusty winds

hamlindp · Sat Sep 06, 08 8:54 am

From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong y'all, shorter lines makes your kite more responsive to kiter input (quicker turning). Which makes it better for surf. But the power stroke is shorter Sad

Also, the wind up higher is usually stronger, so you lose a little there.

I think shorter lines decrease your hangtime during jumps, in lighter wind.

pdxmonkeyboy · Sat Sep 06, 08 9:14 am

hamlindp · Sat Sep 06, 08 9:26 am

I noticed Phil was posting at the same time I was, and he verified my stuff.

Thanks for shedding light on the "winds up higher" thingy.

pauls · Since 20 Jun 2005 564 Posts Northern Portugal Addicted

pdxmonkeyboy · Sat Sep 06, 08 9:54 am

Is there a easy way to shorten your lines....?

hamlindp · Sat Sep 06, 08 10:16 am

PMB,

I saw some of your sweet moves last night. And your unhooked railly. I'm still freaked out about unhooking. I'd probably feel more sure doing that on my Fuel.

I've had to do some splicing, sewing, and miscellaneous kite repair this year, and I was given this link to help with splicing.

http://www.flysurfer.com/Content/158/?mnid=369

I'm it could be applied to the shortening of your lines.

railgrab · Since 29 Mar 2005 177 Posts Seattle, WA Stoked

You could buy a spool of QPowerline and make custom extensions of different lengths to try them. Or perhaps borrow someone's used lines of different lengths to see what you like best. I do like to use longer lines when I'm worried about inadvertent kite looping. Shorter lines make for better photos!

Nak · Sat Sep 06, 08 11:02 am

Not a bad link for starting splicing.

You don't need a splicing needle though. Some music wire bent in half works better and is a lot cheaper. I use .015 diameter wire. Bend a thee foot piece in half. Compress the bend with pliers or something. You want a nice sharp bend so that the line will stick in it. At the end opposite the 180 degree bend, bend the wire 90 degrees. (To prevent it from slipping into the line.)

Insert the point (where the bend is) into the line at about 15 inches away from the loop. slide it towards the loop. exit at the loop. stick the end of the line in the bend of the wire. pull it back through the line. cut the end of the line at a 45 degree angle and fray it. Smooth out the splice while holding the loop. the end should disappear inside the line. If it doesn't, you didn't cut it short enough. Mark it, pull some out, cut it, smooth it again. The 45 degree angle and the fraying is important. If you don't do that, the line will have a weak spot right where the end of the line is. (Inside the splice.)

You have a couple of choices when splicing in a loop.

You could use sleeving and sew it. (Most factory lines.)

You could simply splice a loop in your line as shown in the link. If you have 500 pound line, the loop is going to tighten pretty tight on the larks head I would guess. Maybe even cut it. (Small line diameter.) I've not actually tried a loop with 500 pound line, so I'm not certain how it would be.

If you have 800 pound line, just splice a loop in the end. (Like the front lines on a REV.)

If you have 500 pound line, you could splice on a couple of meters of 800 pound line and splice your loops on that line.

I make my splices about 15 inches long. Might be a bit of overkill, but it's just as easy and you've got plenty of grab. The strength of the splice does not come from the sewing, or the glue, it comes from the weave of the outside line compressing onto the inside line. The sewing just holds the splice in place when there's no tension on the line.

I've been gluing, and not sewing, my splices. No problems yet. Just a drop at the base of the loop.

Remember, superglue DOES NOT adhere to spectra. It might seem like it does, but it's really just making a weak clamp on the fibers which WILL work lose over time. To prove this, try and superglue two baggies together. It doesn't work. There is a product, Jerry Brown Spectra Adhesive which does. It's like a two part superglue. Most factory lines are treated with something like a wax, and even the JB stuff might not adhere well. You can also buy Jerry Brown Spectra fishing line, which is untreated. (It's the same stuff as kite line, just untreated.) Here's a link for a place to get the JB stuff. http://www.bhptackle.com

If you glue the factory line, really play with it first. Do everything you can to break the adhesion. Bend it, roll it, pinch it, pull it, etc. (Sounds bad... Smile

) If you can break the adhesion, it's coated and the splice will need to be sewed, not glued. It's not hard to do either.

Good luck and hit me up if you need help! Very Happy

It's really pretty easy once you've done it a couple of times. Practice on a short piece of extra line first.

Nak · Sat Sep 06, 08 11:13 am

Sorry, forgot this:

When splicing 800# line onto 500#:

First cut all of your lines to an equal length, about a meter shorter than final length desired. Splice on a 2 meter piece of 800# line. (the 15 inch splice will leave about a meter and a half of extension.) Mark all lines at the final length you want. Mark identical entry and exit points for the splices on all lines. Mark identical lengths on the line to be internal to the splice. The exact length of the lines is unimportant. +/- 6 inches, who cares? But it is important that all line lengths be equal. Splicing will change the length of the lines by about one inch for every 10 inches of splice. By making all four loop splices identical, all four lines will have the same change in final length, hence remaining equal.

pauls · Since 20 Jun 2005 564 Posts Northern Portugal Addicted

so no need to sleeve the 800lb stuff?

Nak · Sat Sep 06, 08 11:17 am

scottnorby · Sat Sep 06, 08 11:45 am

I have about 30 sets of 30 meter spectra line sets.
If anyone is interested I will sell some of them cheap.

Take the 30 meter line, fold it in half, attach two ends to one pigtail.

Twist the line about 50 times and use the loop at the other end to attach to your bar.
Super heavy duty 15 meter lines.

It works.
Little heavy, no biggie.

I put 7 meter lines on a bar and I am going to use it out in the bay by my house on a longboard in the winter.
Good times.

Lou rides 10 meter lines and a surfboard.
I think that is in my near future too.
Makes a lot of sense for surf kiting.

hamlindp · Sat Sep 06, 08 12:09 pm

I just use a simple back stitch with no binding/sleeve.

hamlindp · Sat Sep 06, 08 12:10 pm

Good info Nak. Are you sure we can't vote for you this year?