whats up with the lock happy mods?

pdxmonkeyboy · Fri Sep 12, 08 8:39 am

blowhard, thank you soo much for the well thought out response. Seriously, I love debating with people that are informed or have at least some idea of the market forces and history of an industry. The timber thing is super charged for many people and even though it has calmed down a bit, its still akin to the classic urban people pitted against rural if anything goes to a ballot. (think wolf re-introduction conflicts surrently going on). What I can't stomach is the knee jerk, spew out something they heard because I don't have the time to figure out what is really going on.

The whole spotted owl issue was particularly infuriating to me. It wasn't about the owl, it was about the destruction of entire ecosystems. But the timber companies did a tremendous job of spinning everything to pit the mill workers and loggers against those trying to protect the environment. Meanwhile, they are still harvesting trees, skipping the whole milling process and just shipping them to Asia. Why can you feed your family cause you lost your mill job? Come down to ross Island or the port of portland and look at all the huge raw log rafts being loaded up.

Logging was fairly benign until the late 60-70's when mechanized means really took hold. If you ever have seen a feller buncher in action it is equal parts "awesome" and equal parts scary. What is distressing is that clear cutting is chosen 9 times out of ten because its more economical when compared to thinning. There is a time and place for everything but I can drive around the coast range and see very steep hills that should have never been clearcut. Clearcutting can be super harsh on the landscape for a number of different reasons that are too varied and complex to get into here. Lets just say, it ain't good and takes quite a long time to repair itself.

We need wood and timber is a terrific and renewable resource. yes, oregon will "never grow out of trees" but when you take down trees that are 500 years old, for all intents and purposes, that tree isn't growing back. It is estimated that of the original ancient forests that once stood in the PNW, only 7% are left. I guess my thing is that, just leave the goddamn 7% alone. You can clearcut, overplant, thin, spray herbicide, trap beavers, and whatever out of 90% of the PUBLIC LAND, but just leave the remaining ancient forests alone. And by leaving it alone, I don't mean "salvage" logging after a fire and talking out big standing trees in order to make it "economical viable" biscuit fire anyone?

ok, so now that we beat that to death. Thunderdome forum? It was pretty roundly defeated the last time a poll was taken and believe it or not, the monkey agrees that things could get out of hand and it may just spill over into the regular forum or cause some kind of bad feelings between people.

Mr. monkey loves to be a super smartass, call people on it when they are spewing BS and prod people at times simply to get a reaction from them but those that know me understand that it is all in jest and I will be the first one to lend people a hand whether I am asked or not. It should be fairly obvious that I dig on NWkite and I do think that some kind of toast should go to Phil for having the foresight to create and manage a forum that truely does bring the community together, provide valuable information for those new to the sport, and most importantly, spread the stokel!!

Mark · Fri Sep 12, 08 8:42 am

Its to my understanding that the remaining "old growth" has been locked down for many years. A lot of people get confused as to what is or isn't old growth. I have had discussions while standing in a 2ND cut forest and had to count rings to prove it was not old growth.

Ps mills have all retooled over the last 20 years and can't handle the size of old growth anyway.

pdxmonkeyboy · Fri Sep 12, 08 9:22 am

blowhard · Since 26 Dec 2005 2027 Posts Windward

True enough,
MB ,mark
I was pretty muched moved to the back burner for not supporting the timber barons .
In the battle for public lands management.

No trees from federal lands can ever be exported only those from the state or private.
Douglas Fir does not do well thinned unless very young ,a small scratch will cause almost certain rot and death to the tree ,unlike pines & redwoods which seem to thrive with thinning.
Mechanical harvesting is only suitable for small trees.

The real battle was of course won with the support of the big dogs

The large companies in the PNW were out of thier own old growth
so it seemed only reasonable to escalate the value of thier younger growth.
Which with the help of the Sierra club and Earth first elimited federal harvesting.
The only option for smaller companies to survive was federal lands which is now off limits.
By stopping the harvest of all timber from federal lands.(try and not eating for a few years while they sort it out)
All the smaller companies were put out of business and only a few giants remain today
so I guess those with the gold
rule
as usual Sad

I actually gave a very similar speach to a group that I supported for a while the Willamette Timbermens assoc.which helped spawn the yellow ribbon coalition.
I suggested joining the Sierra Club to show support of stewardship.(pissed em off)
only one other member came up to me and said he would go with me, the representive of Rosboro Lumber Co.
A small self made company that has still not harvested all thier old growth

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6549 Posts Couve / Hood Honored Founder

I have a special kind of respect for things that are very old. We grew up going to the redwood forests in California and Oregon and its just cool to touch something that's lived hundreds or even thousands of years.

Even the old sturgeon in the Columbia. Can you imagine something thriving down there for 80 years or more?

If something has been alive longer than you, especially if its very old, give it some respect. That's why I like Mark.

Joshiebaby · Since 14 Oct 2007 569 Posts Vancouver, WA Addicted

Bettyboarder · Fri Sep 12, 08 11:07 am

Moto · Since 03 Sep 2006 2698 Posts Still a gojo pimp! Moto Mouth

Mark · Fri Sep 12, 08 12:34 pm

Beat you with my Big old kane! Laughing

Sturgeon have been around since Lewis and Clark came thru....

Me, not quite! Laughing