Beware of Oversheeting SLE's

homerun · Since 12 Jul 2008 22 Posts

I am assuming my near kitemare described below was do to oversheeting.

My new habit of sheeting out SLE's during stalls after nine years of using older C kites, caused me grief at Rufus Saturday. I was experimenting with pigtail knots on the back/steering lines, since Rufus wasn't crowded. I didn't know what I was getting myself into. I launched a 7m using the forth knot from the end of the pigtail, instead of the 3rd I had used several times before. Performance was great on the 3rd knot, but I was curious if it would perform even better on the 4th knot.

After several reaches in very strong winds, I practiced toe first with the kite low in the window. It stalled due to oversheeting. Just before it hit the water, I shoved the bar away, with me coming to a stop. The kite shot up like a rocket, and I shot downwind and up. That was a scary boost. All I could do was concentrate on keeping my feet in the footstraps, keeping the kite high, and landing butt and board simultaneously. The landing turned out to be uneventful, but I don't plan to mess with oversheeting SLE's again.

Perhaps oversheeting SLE's should be discussed more. I had heard safety is still an issue with new kites if the centerline breaks, but I hadn't heard anything about oversheeting issues. Now I wonder if, for instance, a weak bladder can contribute to something like this. Until now, I would have only associated low bladder pressure to lowsy performance and relaunch problems.

Footnote: I had been using the 45cm bar only with the 7m kite. However, I had used it once with the 10m kite since last using the 7m with it. After the incident, I rechecked the lines/bar and the front lines were about 1/2" to 1" longer than when I checked them two weeks ago when they were new. This alone would have contributed some to oversheeting compared to the previous use of the 7m.

tstansbury · Since 06 Jun 2006 649 Posts Rowena and P.C Addicted

did the kite invert?

Wind Slither · Since 04 Mar 2005 2625 Posts The 503 METAL

homerun · Since 12 Jul 2008 22 Posts

The kite seemed to do the the same thing it does in light winds when I am trying to go downwind from Wells Island after the wind drops, and I have to get it out of a stall on every other sweep by pushing the bar away from me. I mention this in case this is what you mean by invert. However, the kite did not turn inside out, though things happened too fast for me to be sure exactly the state of the kite.

After that incident occurred, I studied the lines above me and could see the kite was oversheeting. I then pulled on the depower strap to reduce the oversheeting. However, a similar but much less dramatic stall and launch occurred, so I go off the water to check the kite out closer.

Pressure in the main bladder seemed OK. I actually pumped it about 1/2 psi higher than I usually have previously on all three of my kites, but probably not as high as I should pump it. I use a guage that indicates 9 psi. However, another guage says 7.5 and a 3rd reads 8 psi when the guages were lined up in tandem for comparison when I first purchased the kites. The only difference in my setup from all my previous good performance sessions was the use of the 4th knot and maybe 1/2 higher psi in the main bladder.

I would have relaunched with the 2nd knot (I was now concerned that the front lines had stretched) but the wind suddenly ended for 7m kiting. However, the wind was full on while I was out there.

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6549 Posts Couve / Hood Honored Founder

Good thread...

Being able to judge your kite well enough to tell if its over or under sheeted are great skills, and something that's good to play with.

Less rear line pressure means a faster flying kite, which can mean more power. So pulling the depower or pushing your bar away won't always mean less power. Also if you have "depowered" your kite to the point where it has turned into a giant flapping mess that you can't steer, then that's probably worse than a bit more rear line pressure and more control.

I see a lot of people doing the death grip pull the bar all the way in while their kite is flying backwards into the water or rocks or whatever on launch. When you are launching or on land you should have your bar pulled in about halfway. If the kite shoots forward suddenly, pull the bar in to slow the kite down so it doesn't overfly you, if it stalls backwards push the bar away.

You can also use stalling as a way to make your kite stick to one spot in the sky while you do something else (like ride a wave.) So its not always a bad thing, its just a bad thing if you can't control it.

blowhard · Since 26 Dec 2005 2027 Posts Windward

so does this make the "C" types
easier? Laughing

or just safer

pdxmonkeyboy · Tue Aug 05, 08 7:51 am

I saw some guy oversheeting the living shit out of his best nemesis? yesterday.

Folks, if your pulling on your bar to the extent that the back corners are folding in..your sheeting in to much. You can see the kites shape change. Try it in light winds and you'll see it stall.

brass · Since 15 Jul 2006 152 Posts Stoked

yeah good thread

I had some questions on this myself. I ride Fuels and really don't have much of a problem with this as I have learned not to oversheet through experince. Lately I have been riding a friend's T2 a little and have had a huge problem with stalling when unhooked. Now I don't plan on riding T2s much but what's up with that? REVS don't seem to stall when unhooked. Just a problem with T2s?

pjc · Since 06 Mar 2005 649 Posts Addicted

The little SLE's are much more sensitive to sheeting than the big ones, IMHO. My 5m SLE took me for a nice ride down the beach on it's maiden launch, b/c I had choked it up a couple knots farther than was appropriate.

If you really want safety you need a 4 line foil.

kyle.vh · Since 11 Jul 2007 713 Posts city of angels Addicted

magicmaker · Since 29 Oct 2006 895 Posts da Hood Opinionated

pdxmonkeyboy · Tue Aug 05, 08 10:33 am

If you are going to unhook, pull the bar all the way to the chicken loop and watch the kite. If the back tips curve in, it slows down bunch, or in the worst case, wants to backstall, you have to trim the front lines before you unhook.

After doing said unhooked trick, I usually sheet out (the front lines) back where they were.

smokey · Since 24 May 2005 50 Posts Portland, OR

After this weekend, I am also having some serious doubts about the reliability/ safety of SLE kites in high winds. I had experienced kite inversion before, but only when I was down in the water and the kite hot relaunched from straight downwind. This was a bit unsettling, but not really any more dangerous than any other hot relaunch. However this weekend I was very powered up on my 7m and trying for some big air. I'd had a couple of good jumps, and everything felt under control. Then I tried one where I took off with a lot of board speed and went up 15+ feet and my kite inverted. If you haven't experienced an inversion before, it goes like this: the leading edge of the kite collapses and the kite turn inside out so that now you're looking at the outside of the canopy. Once inverted the kite re-powers up, but heading 180 degrees from the original direction. In the case of my jump, the kite went from being fully powered and aimed at 12 o'clock to being fully powered, inverted and aiming at 6 oclock. The kite started heading down with a vengeance and took me in for one of my most violent crashes I've had. I went to the beach and called it a day. I checked the leading edge of kite afterwards and it was pumped firm. I think I'll be staying a bit closer to the water now when its really blowing.

genek · Since 21 Jul 2006 2165 Posts East Po KGB

Wow, an inversion at the top of a jump. Sounds pretty unpleasant. I've never had this happen to me and imagine different kites behave differently in these situations. Might be worth scoping out other gear options. I wouldn't want to have to worry about something like that. Also, how you rig your lines, how hard you pump your kite, and what you do with the bar during the jump all come into play. Hard to say what factors contributed to this though.

KidCorporate · Since 10 Jul 2007 563 Posts Addicted

The only one of my kites that I've ever any type of sheeting issues on is my 7m Waroo, which fits the pattern of smaller SLE's being more sensitive, but my stalling/inverting happens after I crash the kite and I'm trying to relaunch it, the kit will invert and reverse hot launch, basically trying to tear itself apart in the process. I lost a board because the kite was trying to commit suicide one time!

However, I will say that my friends' OR quiver is incredibly sensitive to oversheeting and will stall and backfly on you in a second if you're not careful. I'm wondering if it's the same characteristics that give the kite little to no bar pressure are the same ones that cause this? Or is just that I'm used to a kite that tugs back and I'm just over flying the kite?

pdxmonkeyboy · Tue Aug 05, 08 11:11 am

Inversions are some scarry shit. It seems to me that most inversions happen when the leading edge isn't pumped up enough or you are really overpowered..or a combination of the two.

I had my REV "try" to invert on me when really powered at the coast. Sheeting way out to ride a wave, the LE would fold under just a little then "POP" back into place. Having the kite invert at the top of a jump, that sounds horrible!!!

homerun · Since 12 Jul 2008 22 Posts