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Hein
Since 08 Mar 2005
1314 Posts
Possessed
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 Sun Sep 30, 07 9:09 am |
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Last edited by Hein on Mon Oct 08, 07 5:45 am; edited 2 times in total |
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pkh
Since 27 Feb 2005
6549 Posts
Couve / Hood
Honored Founder
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| Sun Sep 30, 07 9:22 am |
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All those guys in those vids from 2000-2002 did real well throwing down wakestyle unhooked moves because their kites pulled hard downwind. They also had tons of bar pressure required to make the kite turn so they could land passes grabbing the bar virtually anywhere.
Really when people say they like C kites for moves its because they go downwind real well.
Once the industry started making kites that ride higher in the window and are more upwind focused, then it started to become harder to land all the wakestyle stuff.
So ever since the designers have tried to strike a balance where you can make a kite pull hard downwind if you want to, but also still ride at the edge of the window upwind and depower quickly.
I think what Hein's saying is true about some people not learning to edge like they used to. It used to be mandatory, now its just optional. Learning to edge you also get away from that ass out stance that you usually associate with long throw bars.
You also got to know that not all kites that are bridled are the same. Some are designed with performance in mind some are designed for ease of use. The former could probably be rode on a pulley bar and requires no less edging than C kites.
Last edited by pkh on Sun Sep 30, 07 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Reaper356
Since 10 Dec 2006
781 Posts
Salem / LC Oregon
Opinionated
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| Sun Sep 30, 07 9:36 am |
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| I don't think you should have to be hardcore to kite - which is part of the argument here. If your stuff doesn't work well for you, you probably aren't going to have fun, so change it to what works best. A demo will help. |
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Hein
Since 08 Mar 2005
1314 Posts
Possessed
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| Sun Sep 30, 07 11:17 am |
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Last edited by Hein on Mon Oct 08, 07 5:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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YngvaiMalmsteve
Since 16 Aug 2007
5 Posts
Kook
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| Sun Sep 30, 07 1:04 pm |
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I don't see why people argue over bows/SLE's/C's.
Just figure out what suits your style & desires the best and then ride that.
My biggest need was range. I have limited kite time and I don't want to have to always come in to change kite sizes if wind conditions change. Plus, kiting out at Jetty Island in Everett in the summer, with the whole kayak across the channel and long walk up the beach...the less gear that I had to haul out there, the better. I wanted kiting to be fun....not a chore.
So C's just don't work for my needs. I don't care how hard you can edge your board, there is only so big of a kite size you can hold down when the wind really starts to crank.
So I ride Ozone Instincts...not only because of their massive windrange, but also because they have no pulleys anywhere so they still retain the direct feel of a C kite.
Just ride what works the best for you. Who cares what anyone else is riding? I've never understood the "my kite is better than your kite, nyeah, nyeah, nyeah" discussions.
I also think it's B.S. that flat kites cause people to not develop board skills. My board skills actually got better when I switched from Fuels to Instincts....because I could now concentrate on what I was doing with the board and actually be able to have fun with it rather than always concentrating on trying to hold down the kite's power. |
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jcohenx
Since 28 Aug 2007
250 Posts
Portland
Obsessed
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| Mon Oct 01, 07 11:18 am |
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| Hein wrote: | de-power makes you a beginner forever...
Sure a bow/sle kite makes learning easier. But
once you've learned. Then what?? How are you
gonna set your self apart from the herd. How
are you going to keep riding fun and challenging?
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I'm definitely still in the beginner phase of kiteboarding and happy to take advantage of any equipment-specific features so long as they are an aid and not a crutch. For this reason I am willing to try different kite designs just because, as a beginner, I don't have a lot of preconceived expectations. For now, I set myself apart from the herd by getting dumped more often than the veterans. Once I build up my basic skills I can begin to think about getting the sick air.
That said, I do love speed. The ability to cruise full tilt with minimal pumping of the kite would be big for me.
_________________
It's always happy hour somewhere in the world. |
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Hein
Since 08 Mar 2005
1314 Posts
Possessed
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| Mon Oct 01, 07 9:12 pm |
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Last edited by Hein on Mon Oct 08, 07 5:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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pkh
Since 27 Feb 2005
6549 Posts
Couve / Hood
Honored Founder
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| Tue Oct 02, 07 6:36 am |
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| Good stuff Hein... the style has merits for sure. I'm sure there will always be C kite manufacturers out there. |
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bulae99
Since 12 Jul 2006
1691 Posts
I give out bad advice.
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| Wed Oct 03, 07 3:44 am OK, I'm game! |
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Hein,
That is interesting for sure! I've been watching you a few times on the strapless with the blue kite. I'm guessing you are not on a chikLoop? In any event I have been thinking about where the evolution will go and as a passenger, unlike you being an tech nerd deluxe, I'm in the consumer bus.
SLE is how I got on the bus, but is sure as heck doesn't mean that's where I will get off. For now I'm still interested in the learning curve in front of me.
My next year, God willing, will include some new tricks etc.. But I like you I am a surfer at heart. I spent years in SD, and HI falling downhill on water with nothing but a surfboard. The feeling of water lifting and then sliding down is awesome. But age has taken a toll on my motivation to swim out and get some. Kites get us there in big hurry. It will be cool to see where this sport is in 5 years.
I guess it's time for me to try a c-kite.
Smell ya later,
Ron 
_________________
Hey, I'm being hahahahahrassed! |
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barfly
Since 31 Mar 2005
1214 Posts
Portland
BRACKISH
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| Wed Oct 03, 07 7:45 am |
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| Hein wrote: | The bottom line is that more folks will
enjoy de-powerable kites and have a
hoot riding them. But not me.
... |
Ok Hein, I'll bite. But... do you think that your setup is the best in all conditions? I agree that when at honking Rufus, dealing with a well-adjusted c-kite/hardloop setup will perform well and staying at tack is not an issue. I almost always rig lighter and ride unhooked/unchickened if the water is helping out with current/flatness, especially when landboarding. I've seen you out here a few times this summer with the same setup on weaker winds and much less-adventageous currents. You would surf down, walk up, surf down and walk up (repeat)... or do longer downwinders.
On the bigger swell days, I honestly don't think you could have stayed at tack if you tried. I ride c kites (Fuels) and do like to adjust for unhooked surf riding but, like you, often prefer to kite in place b/c of good waves or wind in the area. To do this without walking, I need to seriously power up (or possibly have a flatter kite which have upwind advantages). With Fuels, I need to be well-powered, or slightly overpowered so I can overcompensate on the currents outside the break and get back to the start of the lineup (specifically Lot B/jetty).
Adding to the issue is our typical side to side on conditions (so the heavenly side to side off conditions Felix and other wave rock stars get to sail don't apply here) making getting back upwind difficult at best.
The dilema is that to stay in place at a location with the conditions I've explained above requires a kiter to be well powered. I don't think that finesse adjustments to a small c kite will do you much unless you are just going downwind, or the conditions are such that staying upwind in the first place is trivial anyway. Plus, you don't boost, pop, or throw much of anything anymore; except maybe spray.... boosting is fun especially when there are small or crappy waves.
I think that your comments should be preceded by your preference of kiting style/location. Maybe I'm wrong. Can you stay upwind here on the coast in 5-6'+ swell with a hardloop setup? A two line kite? I'm game if it can be done without shortening my session b/c I need to work like a slave to do it.
Thoughts? |
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blowhard
Since 26 Dec 2005
2026 Posts
Windward
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| Thu Oct 04, 07 1:03 pm |
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Again Hien is right on for his style of riding ,couldn't agree more about how the kite line tension thingy
Skill levels never getting better is the opposite of what I see ,,
The guys on the new kites are almost always better immeadiatly.
Board skills are much harder to discern if there is any diff
I always tell people it's about the kite, it's a wing ,,it adds another dimension to the sport
What I see when people are learning they have a lot of trouble with the kites but the board is a snap
Board skills are slow to become popular.
I don't know if many can stay to windward on head high or bigger
but some can |
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Hein
Since 08 Mar 2005
1314 Posts
Possessed
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| Thu Oct 04, 07 7:16 pm |
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Last edited by Hein on Mon Oct 08, 07 5:46 am; edited 2 times in total |
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pkh
Since 27 Feb 2005
6549 Posts
Couve / Hood
Honored Founder
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| Thu Oct 04, 07 7:29 pm |
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| Hein wrote: | | blowhard wrote: | | I don't know if many can stay to windward on head high or bigger but some can |
Helps to have some fin-nage...
FCS fins set in Proboxes |
quoted! 
Hein you got game... if you ever want to work on a race board message me. |
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