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Help....Heel to toeside foil tack.
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apctjb

Since 19 Aug 2007
368 Posts

Obsessed



PostSat Jun 20, 20 12:06 pm    Help....Heel to toeside foil tack. Reply with quote

Ok, I have done my compulsory 1000 attempts at tacking from heel to toeside without a foot change on the foil. So far I am about 5 out of 1000 and getting a little frustrated.

I tend to over rotate, doing a 360 with the board and dropping off the foil, I also having a hard time staying over the board , rather leaning back. ( I usually end up on my back on the water upwind of the board.

Hoping you guys/gals that are nailing this maneuver can offer some words of advice. What's the formula for success???

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ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1301 Posts
Hood River
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PostSat Jun 20, 20 5:19 pm     Reply with quote

1. Send the kite past 12'o before you start your carve. you need to feel it behind you as you start your carve.

2. just as your kite pases thru 12'o - sheet out completely, carve upwind in a bigger arc than you're doing now. don't lean back - rather pump your board up and then lean forward.

It helps to pump the nose of the board up as you initiate the carve, that way when you step forward you won't touch down.

3. step forward onto your new front foot just as you pass thru the wind (facing towards PDX) and pull down with your new front hand.

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apctjb

Since 19 Aug 2007
368 Posts

Obsessed



PostSat Jun 20, 20 6:05 pm     Reply with quote

Thanks, will give these tips a try!

So bring the kite overhead, or a little past while still on a reach and before carving into the wind? I have been carving upwind while brining the kite overhead so that's a big change...


Quote:
step forward onto your new front foot just as you pass thru the wind (facing towards PDX) and pull down with your new front hand.


If I am not going to switch my feet (heel to toe) I assume I skip this step?

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ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1301 Posts
Hood River
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PostSat Jun 20, 20 7:36 pm     Reply with quote

apctjb wrote:
Thanks, will give these tips a try!

So bring the kite overhead, or a little past while still on a reach and before carving into the wind? I have been carving upwind while brining the kite overhead so that's a big change...
Yeah - Fred taught me this one. As you send the kite back.... just as it passes thru 12'0 - start carving upwind.



Quote:
step forward onto your new front foot just as you pass thru the wind (facing towards PDX) and pull down with your new front hand.


If I am not going to switch my feet (heel to toe) I assume I skip this step?
sorry - I should not have said 'new". it's the same front foot. just calling out you need to transfer weight to your front foot - that will stop you from falling back.

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apctjb

Since 19 Aug 2007
368 Posts

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PostSat Jun 20, 20 7:39 pm     Reply with quote

Ok got it.

Sounds like wind tomorrow so going it give these a try....

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windpig

Since 28 Aug 2008
202 Posts

Stoked



PostSun Jun 21, 20 6:31 pm    tips Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/ZutEfLDRJj4
_________________
"I don't believe in doing work that I don't want to do in order to live a life that I don't want to live."
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geo2

Since 08 May 2011
61 Posts
St. Paul, MN
 



PostSat Jul 04, 20 5:58 am     Reply with quote

Super. Looks so easy...and since I am only at 250 tries, maybe I'll be able to do it by the time I get to 500.

Judging by Sam's comment at the end of his vid, he was counting in years to be comfortable doing it, so maybe not, though :0

I think initiating turn AFTER you send the kite back through Noon seems critical (and something I am not doing.)

Thanks.

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juandesooka

Since 21 Jan 2014
87 Posts

 



PostSat Jul 04, 20 7:14 am     Reply with quote

(ps I misread this as gybe advice....so disregard this unless that's what you need help with Wink

Hate to say it, but toeside turns and riding came easy for me. I had already done about 50,000 turns on a surfboard though -- do you have experience with that? Second, I learned to foil behind a boat, where you start out being pulled in a straight line (which is effectively equivalent to straight downwind on a kite), then you naturally start doing little turns back and forth between the wakes, then tighter turns as you get more comfortable -- which is heelside/toeside and toeside/heelside turns over and over. Even after 1 or 2 sessions, it should feel pretty natural by the time you're under a kite ... so if you have the option, some boat training may be a help.

Hard to break down something that feels natural. I think learning anything on a foil, it helps to be powered up, leave the light wind small kite stuff for once you've got it down, until then, some surplus power helps. Just like surfboard, you follow the kite through the turn. (but if underpowered, then I turn the kite first then as it gains speed the other way, follow after it with "whip" through the turn).

If you are doing a wheelie 360, it sounds like you may be doing too sharp a turn without enough speed. Similar if you do too wide a turn, you'll bog down. You need to keep medium speed through the turn in a medium arc -- just right. Lean a little into the turn, like riding a motorcycle. Twist your upper body and look over your shoulder, you will go where you're looking. You have to twist almost to the point of discomfort to go upwind on a foil, the kite is nearly directly behind you. A sliding harness really helps.

Dunno if that helps, hope so! Keep doing those turns, once you have it, a gate will open into carving in swells downwind, and your mind will explode with the RADness.

Last edited by juandesooka on Sat Jul 04, 20 8:12 am; edited 1 time in total

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allenlight

Since 19 Jul 2008
35 Posts

 



PostSat Jul 04, 20 7:29 am    Following this discussion.. Reply with quote

Juandesooka, when you say '50,000 turns' was that 50K tacks on your surfboard? I've got my foil jibes down in both directions and with either foot stance. I'm just starting tacks on foil.

I've not mastered the tack on my surfboard either; with a success rate of about 10-20%. Should I nail that before trying to tack on foil? Also, is the 360 on foil a good progression step? It was mentioned in Sam Light's video, but I've not seen much in the way on advice on the best way to pull that off.

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ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1301 Posts
Hood River
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PostSat Jul 04, 20 8:04 am     Reply with quote

I see a lot of people trying the heel to toeside tack this summer.

I see 2 mistakes repeated over and over.

1. Not sending the kite past 12 before initiation.

2. Leaning backwards, staying on their heels, over-rotating, and falling on their ass - stand tall and throw yourself onto toeside as you pass thru the eye of the wind (nose pointed at Portland).

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juandesooka

Since 21 Jan 2014
87 Posts

 



PostSat Jul 04, 20 8:11 am     Reply with quote

Haha / doh. It is dangerous to post before caffeine has kicked in....I didn't see the key word "tack". Disregard everything I said ... And now clearer why I had difficulty understanding your troubles. Smile

I have minimal tack experience. One summer I decided to learn, found the ducking under lines part mind boggling, so I practiced on the beach with a trainer kite over and over until that part felt natural. Toe to heel was easier than heel to toe. It is quite a bit like backrolls...which also boggled my mind until just forced doing it.

Then transfer to water....repeated fails of looping the kite by accident, crashing it, including putting the foil into the lines. Then I got chicken to approach the turn with the speed you need to carry it through the turn. And then gave up, tricks are for kids, I can gybe instead and make up the lost upwind distance on 10 second's anyway. Wink

Good luck with your progression

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allenlight

Since 19 Jul 2008
35 Posts

 



PostSat Jul 04, 20 9:38 am     Reply with quote

ldhr and juan, thanks for the tips! I think I'm guilty of both common mistakes that you brought up so I've got new ideas for my next session. Definitely a good suggestion to try this move on the beach with a trainer kite.

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apctjb

Since 19 Aug 2007
368 Posts

Obsessed



PostSun Jul 05, 20 12:31 pm     Reply with quote

Quote:
Leaning backwards, staying on their heels, over-rotating, and falling on their ass


That's me!!! As much as I tell myself not to do it seems to be my "fall back" position..(excuse the pun).

I like the idea of throwing myself forward, sounds better than falling backward, whats the worst that could happen....

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eric

Since 13 Jan 2006
1633 Posts

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PostSun Jul 05, 20 5:53 pm     Reply with quote

It’s not a body move. It’s a kite move. Follow the kite.

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apctjb

Since 19 Aug 2007
368 Posts

Obsessed



PostMon Jul 06, 20 6:58 am     Reply with quote

So which is easier to learn; holding the bar just with the back hand or holding with both hands? I see folks doing it both ways so perhaps it doesn't matter...

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eric

Since 13 Jan 2006
1633 Posts

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PostMon Jul 06, 20 7:51 am     Reply with quote

My experience is one handed forces you to really FEEL where the kite is and how to get it where it needs to be. When you start to feel the kite in your wrist you are well on your way. And, one handed allows you to FULLY sheet out your bar, as in bang into the cleat or stopper out. I remove all stoppers from my foiling bars for added throw. The want your arm completely stretched out above your head.

Typical errors are:

1. You think kite is to new side; it's not
2. You think you are sheeted out; you are not
3. Forget/don't pump the back foot to get board around /stay on foil when kite is fully sheeted out on new side.

If you want a rec for an instructor who will get you dialed on the water in an hour ping me.

Eric

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eric

Since 13 Jan 2006
1633 Posts

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PostMon Jul 06, 20 3:04 pm     Reply with quote

You can't lean back, as in downwind, but you can absolutely lean into the radius of the turn, which is perpendicular to the board:

   tacklean.png 

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