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Lift 170 vs 170 fish
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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eric

Since 13 Jan 2006
1310 Posts

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PostTue Aug 28, 18 10:13 am     Reply with quote

Kip pm me and we can exchange contacts

Eric

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scottm

Since 12 Jun 2006
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PostWed Aug 29, 18 5:11 pm     Reply with quote

SpaceRacer, I'm one of the Blue Angels that Laird mentioned. I would highly recommend the Lift 170 wing with the 36 inch mast, which is what I have. Since you mentioned "intermediate" and "stability", I wouldn't go with the fish. At 225 lbs, I have never felt like I needed more maneuverability from the 170, it will carve as hard and/or tight as your legs can handle.

I think Real has a great write up on the Lift foils, and recommends the 170 for your size. I'd agree with that, and add that you're probably too light for the 200. https://www.realwatersports.com/products/lift-surf-sup-foil-170

As others have mentioned, the Slingshot 633 wing and 91 mast is the other option. Just make sure you move it all the way back, and you may have to drill additional holes and/or shim the fuselage.

Personally I prefer the Lift. Lighter, thinner for less drag which means smoother and faster top speed, simpler one piece design, cheaper, and not so dangerously sharp wing tips. Nick started making foils in 2010, and I think his designs are still significantly ahead of and more refined than all the others.

I think you will be happy with either, once you get used to a big wing (gotta stay forward as you come up on foil to keep from breaching).

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caps

Since 23 Dec 2010
302 Posts

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PostWed Aug 29, 18 7:53 pm     Reply with quote

Shimmed my 633/54 SS DC today. I had such high hopes. One shim moved my rear foot back 1/2 inch. I guess I’ll have to keep shimming. After expressing my mild frustration, someone lent me their pocket board to try with my 633. After that, I at least realized how awesome the 54 DC is. I’m not quite ready for a tiny picket board. So no complaints here. Sounds like the 42 DC is the ideal way to go with the 633. But I will say that the 54 DC is still a sweet ride if you don’t need to use the back foot strap.

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ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
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Hood River
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PostThu Aug 30, 18 7:50 am     Reply with quote

caps wrote:
Shimmed my 633/54 SS DC today. I had such high hopes. One shim moved my rear foot back 1/2 inch. I guess I’ll have to keep shimming. After expressing my mild frustration, someone lent me their pocket board to try with my 633. After that, I at least realized how awesome the 54 DC is. I’m not quite ready for a tiny picket board. So no complaints here. Sounds like the 42 DC is the ideal way to go with the 633. But I will say that the 54 DC is still a sweet ride if you don’t need to use the back foot strap.


I suspect you did not shim enough - you want to see a gap between 1/16 and 1/8" on the rear of your fuselage - see the picture below.
The picture may be a little extreme but you get the idea - you want to see a visible gap.

I tried all the SS boards with the 633 and was able to correct the stance with shimming.
IMO - Rear straps are for jumping only - give it 3 - 5 hours and your stance will adjust.
After 2 months of riding the 633 I have removed the shim - I guess my body adjusted and I subconsciously changed my stance.

The evolution of foils and consumer preference is happening so fast the manufacturers are one step behind.
I suspect that most manufacturers will update their board designs next year and move the mast box back 2" to accommodate the higher lift of the surf wings.


   shim.JPG 

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SpaceRacer

Since 04 Nov 2007
424 Posts

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PostThu Aug 30, 18 10:46 am     Reply with quote

These posts are stirring up some new questions...and some anxiety for me lol:

1) As of an hour ago, I was planning on putting the 633 on the 4'8" Liquid Force Galaxy with only a front foot hook. I have placed the order but it can easily be changed. After riding and enjoying the Lift 150 but somehow feeling like the 633 will be better suited for me and my desires, I am getting a feeling that I simply may be instantly happier with putting the Lift 170 on the LF Galaxy and that with the 633 I might be spending a lot of time "fiddling" with the 633/LF setup when I should be out riding. Any merit to this statement? Hearing all of these discussions about the 633 with shimming, sanding, drilling holes, cutting boards, etc. freaks me out lol.

2) Am I to assume that a rider must be properly aligned over the mast and wing? What I mean is that instead of moving a mast all the way aft and/or shimming, drilling holes, cutting boards, can a rider simply stand further forward on the board or does this throw off the balance and sweetness of the setup?

SR

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caps

Since 23 Dec 2010
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PostThu Aug 30, 18 11:08 am     Reply with quote

You won’t regret buying the 633. I’ve been kiting for 10+ years and spent more than my share on kite toys. The money spent on the 633 is some of the biggest bang for the $ yet. It’s fast yet slow when needed, maneuverable and super stable. You will find foot switches a breeze. Relax and enjoy your new ride. You’ll be stoked!

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SpaceRacer

Since 04 Nov 2007
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PostThu Aug 30, 18 11:11 am     Reply with quote

Phew! That’s exactly what I needed to hear. Thanks!

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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
1271 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
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PostThu Aug 30, 18 11:17 am     Reply with quote

caps wrote:
You won’t regret buying the 633. I’ve been kiting for 10+ years and spent more than my share on kite toys. The money spent on the 633 is some of the biggest bang for the $ yet. It’s fast yet slow when needed, maneuverable and super stable. You will find foot switches a breeze. Relax and enjoy your new ride. You’ll be stoked!


Thank You, Caps
Question: Is it necessary for me to get rid of my GW 101 for use with the 633? I'm hearing that it will be possible to attach the 2018 Moses Fuselage & 633 to an older 2017 GW (Moses) 101 mast...but there are those who urge a shorter mast when going to these lower aspect wings. Your thoughts?
Thanks, Kip Wylie

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eric

Since 13 Jan 2006
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PostThu Aug 30, 18 11:34 am     Reply with quote

I ride my 633 on a 2017 GW 105cm mast and love it. My son uses the 91 and loves it. I assume you know that the 633 needs it’s own fuse and rear stab, though. You can’t just swap out front wings from your 2017. The 633 bolt pattern is different that the 545/590 etc.

105 green 2017 GW mast on 3’6” DC. The covered mast is the 2018/19 GW 91. His board is simply a free old wakeboard. He cut off an end, epoxied the cut, bolted the mast through the four drilled holes and gorilla glued a pad on top. The beauty of the 633 is the feeling of riding a surfy wing. Less board is more fun to enhance that feeling.

A common misconception is that the 633 has “ too much Lift.” No, it has a center of lift that is several inches farther forward, which if you don’t account for will feel like “too much” as you will have to push the front foot down ‘too much.’ Note how far back both of us are mounted. The 633 fuse is 5cm longer than the 545/590 fuse, so that accounts for most of the necessary mast movement to the rear.



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Last edited by eric on Thu Aug 30, 18 11:59 am; edited 2 times in total

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SpaceRacer

Since 04 Nov 2007
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PostThu Aug 30, 18 11:44 am     Reply with quote

For guys like us, what are some of the pros/cons of longer vs. shorter masts? From what I understand from a purely "surfing" application that wave (and swell) energy is closer to the top of the wave (thus water) and therefore true "surfers", whether on prone or kite like shorter masts for stability and pumping and less teetering. Probably matters a lot less for dedicated Gorge riders.

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eric

Since 13 Jan 2006
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PostThu Aug 30, 18 11:55 am     Reply with quote

For the Gorge anything from 91-107 will be great. 111 might be a bit too long—maybe—and 71 would be a pita in chop.
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SpaceRacer

Since 04 Nov 2007
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PostThu Aug 30, 18 12:08 pm     Reply with quote

Sorry Eric, for some reason when I read your post before last I only saw the first sentence. My second question above still stands though. Instead of cutting, drilling holes, shimming, etc. if one is riding without straps can’t one simply stand further towards the front of the board this eliminating all of the fiddling? Makes me want to return the Carbon Galaxy and buy a $15 piece of plywood at Home Depot!

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caps

Since 23 Dec 2010
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PostThu Aug 30, 18 12:14 pm     Reply with quote

I agree with Eric. Personally, I’d use the 101 if I already owned it. If not, I’d go with the 91cm cuz it’s a nice middle ground.

And in regards to riding the 633 for the first time, I just put the foil all the way back, front foot strap all the way forward and immediately felt at home on my first tack. My back foot was forward a few inches from other foils but really no big deal. I’m not sure I’m even gonna fuss with the shimming anymore. Might just go strapless and forget it. Sometimes it’s just fun to tweak your gear and see what happens...

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ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1058 Posts
Hood River
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PostThu Aug 30, 18 12:45 pm     Reply with quote

SR - the first time on the 633, it might feel like you need to move forward on the board - compared to your old foil.
But since you're also going to a new board - you have a fresh start.

A few of us found that moving the feet forward and/or shimming helps the adjustment period. No drilling or sanding required. Cutting a plastic shim - maybe.

Don't know how the LF board/mast track is setup - but it should be an awesome combo.
First session - probably try with the mast all the way back and if you use hooks or straps - put them forward.

I don't think there's any difference between a 91, 101, or 105 mast.
I used to ride a 101 and loved it. Now I ride the 91 and love that too.

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eric

Since 13 Jan 2006
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PostThu Aug 30, 18 1:56 pm     Reply with quote

Yes. Standing farther forward and or back foot forward all does the same thing. In general, you straddle the center of lift with your feet.
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scottm

Since 12 Jun 2006
82 Posts

 



PostSat Sep 01, 18 8:31 am     Reply with quote

35-36 inch masts are the new standard. 40-42 are the old standard. I much prefer the new standard, as it puts the foil a little above waist high vs. chest high for the old standard, so you are less likely to drill it into the sandbar when you wade out as deep as you can before starting. It's also a bit quicker turning, a bit less painful when you breach, a bit harder to keep in the water over big swell, and a bit worse going upwind.

If you already have an old mast, there's probably not much point to getting a new one. But if you're buying a new one, go 91 cm SS or 36 in Lift.

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
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Camas
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PostSun Sep 02, 18 6:19 pm     Reply with quote

Not sure if this is still relevant, but I measured my 4'8" LF Galaxy today. Distance from the back of the track to the front insert is 30".
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