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unsafe and disrespectful activity in Rufus launch zone
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bigjohn

Since 13 Mar 2012
371 Posts

Obsessed



PostFri Jul 20, 18 8:17 am     Reply with quote

bwd wrote:
Are you doods too lost in pee cee to call out
P O T I O N
C H O A D I O
?!?!?
I remember when this place had steez...

And by the way if you drive all the way to Rufus who gives a fook about watching pros for half an hour?
Sounds ok to me...


First off it was not the kite brand you are referencing.

2nd, I think you have a good point. I do enjoy watching pros kite. After they were done tail dragging across the launch zone they moved to touch jumping vegetation in the dead zone 20 yards south of the launch spot. This was impressive as this area is extremely wind shadowed and holey.

If they had skipped the tail drags in the launch zone I would have left with a positive experience.

Even if they had followed my above recommendations regarding communications and developing a shared use plan for the launch zone I would have left with a non-negative experience.

Just sharing my perspective... Other opinions may vary.

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west

Since 09 Oct 2008
79 Posts
Lake Michigan
 



PostFri Jul 20, 18 12:26 pm     Reply with quote

I can understand your bewilderment of the skilled kiters clogging up the launch zone at Rufus; frustrating and dangerous. That being said, I am baffled that neither you (or anyone else) brought it up on the spot.

If it’s just for forum fodder, then so be it; however addressing the issue with the kiters as it was happening seems to be the way to correct the problem. That’s the basic premise of self-policing; calling it out while it’s occurring so it doesn’t continue. Now there other kiters imaging who it was with the clues you gave....

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bigjohn

Since 13 Mar 2012
371 Posts

Obsessed



PostFri Jul 20, 18 1:18 pm     Reply with quote

west wrote:
I can understand your bewilderment of the skilled kiters clogging up the launch zone at Rufus; frustrating and dangerous. That being said, I am baffled that neither you (or anyone else) brought it up on the spot.

If it’s just for forum fodder, then so be it; however addressing the issue with the kiters as it was happening seems to be the way to correct the problem. That’s the basic premise of self-policing; calling it out while it’s occurring so it doesn’t continue. Now there other kiters imaging who it was with the clues you gave....


In my opinion talking to someone directly on the beach works best when that person is unaware of the potential hazard they are creating. Sometimes people lay their lines out in the runway area at Rufus. When they are ready to launch I will launch them and then do my best to inform them in a non-confrontational manner that it's the generally accepted practice to lay your lines out away from the runway and then have someone bring your kite over to the runway when you are ready to launch. Many visitors simply don't know this fact, and the runway looks to them like a nice open place to lay their lines. These type of people are almost always very apologetic and happy that you informed them in a courteous manner. Occasionally you meet a kiter that knows, but just doesn't give a sHtz.

However, I find it hard to believe that pro kiters would be unaware of where the runway is. To a pro kiter, seeing all the kites to the side and seeing everybody launching / landing in the runway zone is basic kiting 101. To add to this, even if they were unaware when they first started... it would have become apparent very quickly when people continued to land and launch right next to them while they were performing their tricks. One guy dropped his kite right next to one of the pros (and not on purpose). You could see that this guy was visible distressed with the situation.

My point is I didn't feel the direct approach was going to add any value to the situation. However, I do believe that the different discussions on this thread will add value to both the individuals who I witnessed as well as others in the future who might be thinking about it.

Ultimately safe launches leads to open access for kiting. Accidents leads to closed launches (not to mention injurys). If that is forum fodder well so be it.

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west

Since 09 Oct 2008
79 Posts
Lake Michigan
 



PostFri Jul 20, 18 3:59 pm     Reply with quote

Maybe the “pros” would have responded to a simple conversation....why not approach the photographer?....Personally I find that most kiters respond positively to a situation they are creating which is posing a safety hazard, especially when there is a group of concerned kiters involved; hard to ignore.

We all have our own sense of obligation to the kiting community and our own style of dealing with issues regarding safety and beach access. Thanks for the thread!

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Pepi

Since 16 Jun 2006
1666 Posts
Hood River's local kite
Shop Owner

CGKA Member


PostFri Jul 20, 18 4:02 pm     Reply with quote

Well Said!

west wrote:
Maybe the “pros” would have responded to a simple conversation....why not approach the photographer?....Personally I find that most kiters respond positively to a situation they are creating which is posing a safety hazard, especially when there is a group of concerned kiters involved; hard to ignore.

We all have our own sense of obligation to the kiting community and our own style of dealing with issues regarding safety and beach access. Thanks for the thread!

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MasPedos

Since 05 May 2017
56 Posts
Hood Liver
 



PostFri Jul 20, 18 4:21 pm    It was Air Rush, not Ocean Rodeo BWD Reply with quote

Hey, fyi
It was not Ocean Rodeo.

It was Airush Kites.


The fact Jack.

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dangler

Since 26 Feb 2006
1389 Posts
WINDY SPOTS
XTreme Poster



PostFri Jul 20, 18 7:50 pm    shit shows Reply with quote

They all showed up at Stevie today. Bunch of Naish groms were sure fun to watch, but obviously unconcerned that others were trying to launch and land while they blocked all access with their photo shoot. I certainly don't fault the kids, but who ever was in charge is a total douche.
And the Airrush (does it have two R's?) crew was there too, but not clogging the hell out everything (including the limited parking.)
Anytime someone shows up with a camera, I get off the water cuz a shit show is sure to happen.

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bigjohn

Since 13 Mar 2012
371 Posts

Obsessed



PostFri Jul 20, 18 7:59 pm     Reply with quote

Pepi wrote:
Well Said!

west wrote:
Maybe the “pros” would have responded to a simple conversation....why not approach the photographer?....Personally I find that most kiters respond positively to a situation they are creating which is posing a safety hazard, especially when there is a group of concerned kiters involved; hard to ignore.

We all have our own sense of obligation to the kiting community and our own style of dealing with issues regarding safety and beach access. Thanks for the thread!


Pepi - I just feel that by communicating through this forum I can create greater awareness of the need to operate safely and protect our launch sites.

I really hope the riders have reflected a bit upon their actions.

I wish them the best of luck in their future endeavors.

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pollywog

Since 07 Aug 2009
197 Posts
Columbia City
Stoked



PostFri Jul 20, 18 8:00 pm     Reply with quote

If it were me, and it certainly was not, I would have appreciated someone telling me the etiquette of the area. If said team didn’t respond kindly, then by all means post it publicly.

Posting this on a forum seems passive-aggressive to me. It’s really not fun trashing people for fodder when it can have an impact on them (and their sponsorship and the brands appearence to the public).

Imagine if it were you, and no one told you. Instead they thought you should somehow know because of your skill-level? You’d be pissed because you were not given the opportunity to correct said crappy behavior, if so inclined.

It seems to me this could have been handled in a more gentlemanly and sportsmanlike manner.

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Matt V

Since 26 Oct 2014
337 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
Explosive Diarrhea



PostFri Jul 20, 18 8:53 pm     Reply with quote

pollywog wrote:

Posting this on a forum seems passive-aggressive to me. It’s really not fun trashing people for fodder when it can have an impact on them (and their sponsorship and the brands appearence to the public).

Imagine if it were you, and no one told you. Instead they thought you should somehow know because of your skill-level?


First off, if you have a paid (or free-geared) team member, they should not have to be told about proper etiquette. ESPECIALLY AT A LAUNCH AND LANDING ZONE! I cannot fathom an exception where being inconsiderate of other kiters would be acceptable for a team member.


But more disturbing, is the heat bigjohn is taking for erring on the side of caution with respect to blurting out the specific brand responsible. I think the preponderance of evidence shows that this team was, at bare minimum, inconsiderate of other kiters. But I would need more proof like a video, and many other witnesses, to convict them of being reckless.

Let bigjohn stick to his guns. He is the eyewitness in this incident. He was willing to come forward with this post. Tell him your ideas, but give him the respect and thanks he deserves.

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west

Since 09 Oct 2008
79 Posts
Lake Michigan
 



PostSat Jul 21, 18 3:57 am     Reply with quote

More proof? Conviction? More witnesses.... It’s not a court hearing Matt, just the court of public opinion! Made me laugh tho....happy trails for the pros!

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HRnico

Since 22 Mar 2008
224 Posts
Da Hood
Stoked



PostSat Jul 21, 18 7:09 am    Just rig up and launch Reply with quote

They have the skills to avoid.
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kiterbiker

Since 12 Jun 2010
65 Posts

 



PostSat Jul 21, 18 9:01 am     Reply with quote

While the ‘pros’ may have the skills to avoid, they can’t magically give the skills to avoid to those around them. Newer riders may not know how to handle a given situation, get nervous when trying to go out with someone flying in at them, causing them to make a mistake, over steer the kite or endup getting into trouble if they freak out. You don’t know for sure the competency of surrounding riders, especially someone just coming into the water, so the pros should know to give a little more room at a launch to account for the added risks someone just getting into the water is subject to. This is not knowledge that is specific to any one launch. Most spots have a lot of water, and only a small area to launch and land. It doesn’t take any magic local knowledge to figure this out.

I have no problem with approaching people and politely asking them to give more room, or make requests that may be specific to a given spot. Unfortunately, it’s usually a $(&@ you very much response in those situations, even when approaching someone with the most polite presence possible. Or by the time they’re off the water, you’re already gone or back on the water, because you go there to kite, not wait on the beach to talk to people who aren’t handling the launch very considerately.

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user124

Since 02 Aug 2012
259 Posts
Portland
Obsessed



PostSat Jul 21, 18 9:45 am     Reply with quote

kiterbiker wrote:

I have no problem with approaching people and politely asking them to give more room, or make requests that may be specific to a given spot. Unfortunately, it’s usually a $(&@ you very much response in those situations, even when approaching someone with the most polite presence possible. Or by the time they’re off the water, you’re already gone or back on the water, because you go there to kite, not wait on the beach to talk to people who aren’t handling the launch very considerately.


I agree - it can be difficult to confront someone and the response can be unpredictable. I think this kind of forum post about this kind of activity is useful. But I find all the beating around the bush naming the brand pretty silly. From what I gather, this group was in a public location, in plain view of a bunch of other people, and even filming their own actions. Why does this need to be some kind of secret? If the Airush people feel slighted or misrepresented, they are more than welcome to tell their side of the story. In fact it would be nice to see either an apology or explanation.

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Matt V

Since 26 Oct 2014
337 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
Explosive Diarrhea



PostSat Jul 21, 18 10:03 am     Reply with quote

kiterbiker wrote:
While the ‘pros’ may have the skills to avoid, they can’t magically give the skills to avoid to those around them. Newer riders may not know how to handle a given situation, get nervous when trying to go out with someone flying in at them, causing them to make a mistake, over steer the kite or endup getting into trouble if they freak out.


Less maneuverable craft (beginner) has the right of way over the more maneuverability craft (intermediate to pro).


kiterbiker wrote:
....You don’t know for sure the competency of surrounding riders


I would have a hard time believing an unimpaired intermediate kiter could not tell a beginner with 20 seconds of observation of their flying skills. I can tell most kiters skill level within 5 seconds of watching them.


kiterbiker wrote:
....so the pros should know to give a little more room at a launch to account for the added risks someone just getting into the water is subject to.


Outgoing has right of way over incoming. That means incoming, regardless of skill level, is expected to get out of the way so outgoing can launch and head out - NOT JUST "give a little more room"! (you must kite at the Eventsite to have this "give a little more room" idea in your head). You can throw ticks and jump the launch, so long as no one is there getting ready to launch, and so long as there is no area specific rule preventing it. Once someone even looks ready to launch, the kiter impeeding them from that must remove themselves as an obstacle to the outgoing kiter. It is called "right of way".


kiterbiker wrote:
... because you go there to kite, not wait on the beach to talk to people who aren’t handling the launch very considerately.


And having the "right of way" means you are actually more restricted than those who must yeild to you. The vessel with the "right of way" MUST hold course and continue on that course - AND NOT CHANGE THAT COURSE. Though course change to avoid a collision or running aground is permited while still retaining "right of way". Thus the vessel with the "right of way" has only ONE course option. But the yielding vessel can avoid in any manner that does not interfere with the vessel with the "right of way"

So a kiter at the launch who launches thier kite, then stands there with the kite in the air (not continuing on the course of getting out on the water) does not have the right of way. This is where bigjohn could have been mistaken about the situation and why I would like to hear the other side of the story from the accused.

We have all been there when an idiot launches their kite and flies it standing at the launch/landing area but does not go out, or come in. This idiot kiter does not have the right of way as they are not continuing on their course. Thus someone has the right to buzz them on the beach.


kiterbiker, I think you get the gist of things, but you need to learn what "right of way" actually means. And as a side note, given kiteboarding's ease of access, we would be better off with simpler rules than sailing rules. There are just too many kiters who do not care about "right of way" to have these rules actually help before an incident occurs. Thankfully, most of them stick to HR.

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Matt V

Since 26 Oct 2014
337 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
Explosive Diarrhea



PostSat Jul 21, 18 10:07 am     Reply with quote

west wrote:
More proof? Conviction? More witnesses.... It’s not a court hearing Matt, just the court of public opinion! Made me laugh tho....happy trails for the pros!


I am sorry that I made you think there was upcoming or ongoing litigation in this issue. That was not my intent.

My intent was to let others know that when you only have one side of the story, you should not rush to judge. Children are usually taught this at a very young age, typically through children's stories. Unfortunately, many do not pick up on this concept and continue into adulthood without understanding this principle.

Again, I apologize for being unclear to you and hope you now understand better what I was saying. And you are welcome for the laugh.

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Last edited by Matt V on Sat Jul 21, 18 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total

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user124

Since 02 Aug 2012
259 Posts
Portland
Obsessed



PostSat Jul 21, 18 10:12 am     Reply with quote

Matt V I don't think anyone reads your long-ass posts. Can you give a 2 line summary Laughing ?

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