04 fuels?

tinyE · Since 21 Jan 2006 2004 Posts not really an XTreme Poster

how are the 04 fuels? slow? bad depower? etc?

Nak · Tue Feb 27, 07 9:53 pm

I like my 04 Fuels. I like the larger ones more since I modified them with both the SS oneline and a KPO-like bridle on the wingtips. The biggest problem they do have is that the larger ones tend to fall leading edge first and tumble if you get a lull of less than about 7 or 8 knots. I have a big bow that just sits back further in the window in lulls, much preferable. However, once the wind picks up, I like the feel of the Fuel a lot better. Dive the kite and you get a much bigger surge of power.

I've not flown many other C kites, so I can't really comment on the de-power, at least using just the bar & depower trim. However, using a sheetable fifth line they have plenty of depower. I can ride my 19 from about 11 knots up to 22 or so. Just reef in on the fifth line and you're good.

For the price you can pick up an 04 Fuel for, they're great. If you're going to buy one, check the bladders. if they have black nipples, they will fail. The bladders with the clear nipples are the warranty replacements. if you see one with the black, plan on buying a new set of bladders.

Nak

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6548 Posts Couve / Hood Site Lackey

why go 04 when you can go 05 or 06... ? Very Happy

http://www.nwkite.com/forums/t-3894.html
http://www.nwkite.com/forums/f-2.html

Nak · Tue Feb 27, 07 10:36 pm

Hey, definately get the 05 or 06 if you can get the deal! Very Happy

Nak

EdG · Since 19 Dec 2005 424 Posts Just a Kook that's Obsessed

If you can get newer gear I think it would be best. With all the advancements the past years I can see why a lot of people sell their gear at the end of each season. I say that after I sold my 04 kites this year and bought 06 Kites for last season and this coming season. just my opinion Very Happy

tinyE · Since 21 Jan 2006 2004 Posts not really an XTreme Poster

i hear you on newer.... but I was looking for a bigass kite to keep out at the beach. there's days where my 12 waroo just isn't quite enough.... even with a 6' surfboard. i found a 19 fuel for $100. Seemed like a steal if it flew at all. Does anyone know the windrange of a kite that size?

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6548 Posts Couve / Hood Site Lackey

I guess the best way to find out what big kites are all about is to own one, so you could call it a $100 learning experience. Very Happy

magicmaker · Since 29 Oct 2006 895 Posts da Hood Opinionated

Moto · Since 03 Sep 2006 2698 Posts Still a gojo pimp! Moto Mouth

MEwing5000 · Since 14 Nov 2005 34 Posts Seattle

I have only owned '04 Fuels. I own 7 through 17, my favorite is the 11, I have also converted to a fifth line that does help the range a bit but I think it kills your jump hight. Also the bigger ones are great if you have exactly the right wind speed for your weight but if its up and down at all they turn into pigs for me. I like to do other stuff than just jump huge and quickly lose confidence to try other stuff when I get tea bagged a couple of times. I'd go with some new technology, I can't wait to get my hands on something new. That being said I have learned everything I know on these kites. The nipples are a major problem if they haven't been replaced also you'll need to put zip ties on the one pump hoses. good luck.

hamlindp · Wed Feb 28, 07 10:04 am **KPO like wing tip bridle system**

Yo NAK,

I also added a fifth line to my 16M 04 Fuel. It was the only way I could relaunch that beast Embarassed

I might mention here that if you don't dive the kite when you jump, the kite turns and falls leading edge first out of the sky. You mentioned a KPO type bridle retrofit to the wing tips. This is the first time I've heard of such an animal. Could you explain how it works and were to buy the mod?

I'm a Sauvies Island old schooler. I've sailed there since '81!

I also own 20M Cabrihna that I'm still trying to learn to reverse-relaunch using their Recon System. Very difficult with low windage. Someone told me once, "If you can't relaunch it, don't crash it". Good advice.

Nak · Wed Feb 28, 07 10:08 am

$100 for a 19 is a great deal. Make sure it has the clear nipples or you'll have to buy a set of bladders. The 19 definitely flys better with the fifth line and the KPO type wingtip bridle. If anyone is interested I can post how to do that mod. The fifth line won't limit your jumps if you rig it to be just a little loose. Then just trim in the fifth for higher winds.

If you aren't going to buy it, and if it has the clear nipples, let me know. I'd be interested in that kite to leave in Honolulu for that price. (I have a car there.)

Do be aware that in very light lulls it will tumble out of the sky. (About 7 knots.) A better solution for light wind is the Machine. Real has new Machines complete with bar for $500 right now.

http://www.realkiteboarding.com/index.cfm?page=detail&catID=475&productID=7710

That's a pretty good deal!

Nak

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6548 Posts Couve / Hood Site Lackey

$100 bucks is a good deal, but you still got to pump the thing up and fly it... if you really want something that works really well I'd spend a little more get a modern 14m-17m. The Machine is a good kite, and for $500 complete I'd opt for it over the $100 fuel even. Get a 17.5m machine, don't go bigger than that... for your weight you don't need it.

Also a surfboard isn't really a lightwind board like a Glide. Maybe a huge long board that's so bouyant you can stand on it without even moving... but really the glide or something similar is better because it has zero rocker, sharp edges, and the right shape for getting upwind.

I know a lot of people say they have a surfboard as a lightwind board and think its the ultimate, but its really not. A surfboard is cool because you can ride waves with it and on a downwinder in lightwinds I'd take a surfboard over a glide... but for staying upwind and absolute low end the glide or something similar is still better.

registered · Since 12 Jul 2005 1319 Posts tsunami Sandbagger

imho my 04 19 was as good of a kite as my machines. the machine has less air in it because of the rigid battens. I wouldn't buy bigger than a 17.5 machine my 20 rarely produces more power than my 17.5 but will hang in the sky at a lower wind speed but not pull much more.

get a big board for light wind and a big kite you can turn to try and keep things from stalling .

04s were great kites and I only replaced 1 L.E. bladder ever out of my 4 04 kites it was an issue for most however.

Nak · Wed Feb 28, 07 10:46 am

Hi Hamlindp!

Before I knew there was a KPO I was playing around with the idea. It works really well on my larger 04 fuels, so much so I'm going to try it on my smaller ones.

Benefits:
1. Turns faster with less bar input. It doesn't make the kite turn faster technically. But it does require less bar input and less bar pressure to turn the kite. The result is it feels like the kite turns faster. My 19 felt like a pig to me before, now its pretty decent for a big kite. Still a lot slower than smaller kites though...

2. Significantly less bar pressure. Like 70% - 80% less.

3. Handles gusts easier. You get more depower for the same bar movement. Total depower remains unchanged, you just need less bar movement to get it. the depower strap really just becomes a trim strap. Full depower is available just by moving the bar out. (NOT bow-like depower!!!)

4. Relaunch is easier. My feeling anyway.

CONS:
1. You have two pulleys on the kite.

2. DANGER. If you place the bridle wrong, the kite can power up completely with no way to control it!!! Steering can be lost in this situation. Placement of the bridle attachment points is CRITICAL!!!

The bridle is very simple. All it really is is one extra pigtail on the wingtip. Airtime can add this for pretty cheap. (I forget exactly how much it was.) the placement of that pigtail is what is critical. I'll post pics later, but the bridle is just one line (1/8" Amsteel) hooked to the front pigtail and the new pigtail, creating a "V". A pulley rides on that line. The front pigtail in turn is attached to the pulley. Rear attachment is unchanged, although you do need a long pigtail to make up for the length of the bridle. One bridle for each wingtip.

Once done, you really need to test it while it is hooked up to an immovable object, like a truck. (I didn't do it this way initially, not fun at all. I could have been killed.) Check that the kite still is controllable. Check that the kite powers and depowers with control bar movement. Check it in at least the highest winds you'll fly this kite.

Compared to new technology you might not be impressed. Compared to how the old kite flys before and after though...

Last is the new pigtail placement. There are a couple of ways to calculate this. If anyone is still interested I'll post pics of the mod and how to calculate the pigtail placement. If I've scared everyone off then no need! Very Happy

DANGER: PLEASE REMEMBER! If you do not place the new pigtail properly, the kite WILL NOT be controllable!!!

NAK

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6548 Posts Couve / Hood Site Lackey

tinyE · Since 21 Jan 2006 2004 Posts not really an XTreme Poster

i found pretty cheap machines on real's site (I think it was)... 17.5 or a 20 for 300. that doesn't seem too bad... .but really, for 300, i may just keep looking for a big bow...