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How To: Making a Dual Layer Depower Rope
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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
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PostTue Nov 12, 13 11:30 pm    How To: Making a Dual Layer Depower Rope Reply with quote

Here's how you make a Dual Layer Depower Rope. This takes about 15 minutes once you've acquired the tools and supplies. A dual layer line made out of 1/8" Amsteel ends up being 3/16" diameter.

Dual layer ropes have several advantages. First and foremost they wear better than single layer ropes. A lot better. I've never had to replace one, even on my heavily used bars from 2010. Second: On below the bar depower systems they disengage the cleat far more easily than single layer ropes. The reason for this is the dual layer rope retains it's round shape in the cleat while the single layer rope squishes down flat and really jams into the cleat. Third: Even if the outer layer fails there is a pretty good chance you'll be able to limp back to the launch with the kite still under control. This is a really easy mod that anyone can do in about 15 minutes.

Tools required:
A brand new single edged razor. Used blades will be too dull for our purpose.
A Fid. You make this from a piece of stainless steel rod you can buy at most any hardware store. Mine is .125" diameter. Anything from .110 to .125 diameter should work. About 10" long. Round one end with a file or a grinder. Smooth the round end with sandpaper.
2" wide masking tape. The regular masking tape, not the blue tape. The blue tape is not sticky enough.
Loctite Plastics Bonding System 2 part super glue. Available at Home Depot. Regular superglue will not bond amsteel.
A small carabiner or clip of some sort.
Surgical gloves. Available at Home Depot.
A cutting board of some type.
1/8" Amsteel line. Decide how long a line you need, double that and add 2. For Slingshot bars I make a 7' line. So, I need 16' of amsteel. 2x7+2=16 Make a line at least a foot longer than what you think the line length will be. Slingshot lines are around 5.5' long, so I make the new line 7' long.

Mark your line length, how long your line will be, from one end of the line. Cut that end of the line off at a 45 degree angle. Cut only enough line off to make your angle. You're cutting off about a quarter inch of line. The cut will make it easier to feed the line as it will make the end thinner.

Tape the 45 degree cut end of the line to the flat end of the fid. Don't go overboard on the wraps, no more than two wraps. Any more and it will be difficult to feed the fid through the line.

About an inch past your mark, compress the line together so that the braid becomes loose and open. You'll notice that the line has about 12 lines braided together to make your main line. Each braid will have a lot of threads. Insert the rounded end of the fid into your line between the braids. Avoid pushing the fid through the threads of an individual braid. If you go between the threads, it will be difficult to feed the line.

Push the line onto the fid. Be careful not to push the fid out of the line. You'll have to smooth the line over the fid and off the back. When the fid is about 2" from the end of the line, push the fid out of the line. Hook the clip onto the loop you've made, this will keep you from pulling the loop all the way into the line. Smooth the line back towards the loop, shrinking the loop till the loop is the size you want. For a Slingshot bar, I make the loop tight around the clip.

Remove the tape & fid from the line. Start smoothing the line from the loop back towards the other end, keeping the loop tight. Use a lot of pressure and smooth the line so it's tight. The 45 degree cut end should disappear into the line, leaving around 8"-12" of single layer line at the end of your 7' dual layer line. This thinner section will make it easy to thread the rope through the bar fittings.

Now we're going to glue the line. The glue provides none of the line strength but will keep the loop in place. First, we have to get the activator out of the applicator. The applicator won't let us work the activator through line. We're going to cut one end of the activator bottle off with a heavy pair of scissors. Wear gloves and eye protection. There's enough activator to do several line sets, but you have to have a small bottle to put the activator in. Or, you can just buy a new glue set each time you need activator. Set the activator bottle upright. Cut off the very top of the bottle, just below the threads. There's a cloth wad in the container and there'll be activator soaked into that as well as a few drops in the bottom. You can squeeze a fair bit of activator out of the cloth wad.

Wear gloves. Put two drops of activator on the rope just below the loop. Spin the rope back and forth between your thumb and forefinger working the activator into the rope. Give it one minute to dry Repeat with two drops of the special super glue. Use a lot of pressure so that the rope diameter at the glue joint is as small as you can make it. Don't over work the joint. Once the joint is tight and you're sure you worked the glue into the rope set it down and give it at least five minutes to dry. Put one drop of superglue on the other end of the rope and work it in like you did near the loop. This will keep the end from fraying and keep the diameter of the end small--making it easier to feed the line through bar hardware. You don't need to use activator here.

You're done! I'll cover installing the rope in another thread.

Note: Consider getting some Jerry Brown superglue online if you'll be doing more than a couple of joints. The loctite is cheaper and more readily available. If you'll be doing more than a couple of glue joints though, the Jerry Brown stuff comes with a whole lot more activator. It's in a bottle with a brush, and is enough to last a long, long, while. The Glue itself--both loctite and JB--has a shelf life of about six months, so toss it after that. You can replace the JB glue with the loctite glue after that and just use the JB activator. The JB glue set is about $25, the loctite is around $6 I think? Also, don't touch the super glue bottle to the line. Drop the drops onto the line. Just a couple of molecules of the activator getting into the superglue will harden the whole bottle. Google Jerry Brown Fishing Line to find the JB glue.


   Tools (Custom).JPG 
   45 cut (Custom).JPG 
   Tape Start (Custom).JPG 
   Tape Finish (Custom).JPG 
   Line Compress (Custom).JPG 
   Fid Start (Custom).JPG 
   Fid Middle (Custom).JPG 
   Fid Near End (Custom).JPG 
   Fid End (Custom).JPG 
   Line Alnmost Done (Custom).JPG 
   Line Done (Custom).JPG 

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Last edited by Nak on Wed Nov 13, 13 11:06 am; edited 2 times in total

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SalmonSlayer

Since 27 Nov 2005
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PostWed Nov 13, 13 9:15 am    Re: How To: Making a Dual Layer Depower Rope Reply with quote

Nak,

Great post!! I have been making my own bars from spare parts and ideas I have cobbled together from other DIY'ers. Mostly for fun, but it also has given me a broader knowledge of how a bar works and how some bar applications work better depending on the riders riding style.

I have a few questions on your process.

Nak wrote:
First and foremost they wear better than single layer ropes.

You seem to use personal experience for this observation. Any thought as to why it wears better?


The following are kind of dumb questions, but, I want to make sure I am not just assuming I understand these parts.
Nak wrote:
Put two drops of activator on the rope just below the loop.

Just below where the loop enters the line and is doubled up?

Nak wrote:
Use a lot of pressure so that the rope diameter at the glue joint is as small as you can make it. Don't over work the joint. Once the joint is tight...

So you are pinching the doubled up line while rolling it between your thumb and forefinger. You say "donít overwork the joint" and "once the joint is tight". Does this mean you roll the joint slowly until it starts to stiffen up or just until you guesstimate the glue is distributed throughout the joint or ?

Nak wrote:
You're done! I'll cover installing the rope in another thread.

Looking forward to it.

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Jonpnw

Since 22 Jul 2010
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PostWed Nov 13, 13 9:26 am    Thank you ! Reply with quote

Waiting for my amsteel to arrive. I will post my results.
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Sasquatch

Since 09 Mar 2005
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P-town
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PostWed Nov 13, 13 10:13 am    Re: How To: Making a Dual Layer Depower Rope Reply with quote

Nak wrote:


Spin. . . back and forth between your thumb and forefinger . . .as small as you can make it. Don't over work the joint. Once the joint is tight and you're sure you worked the glue. . . You're done!



Man you Washingtonians are getting wasteful with your new recreational laws and all. You should always "clean you're plate" and not be wasteful. Yes, one should over work the joint till there is nothing left. And FYI, one doesn't have to use glue to seal up the rolling paper; just lick the end once that has adhesive on it and fold it over. Razz

Good post Nak!

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
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PostWed Nov 13, 13 10:47 am    Re: How To: Making a Dual Layer Depower Rope Reply with quote

Thanks SS!

SalmonSlayer wrote:

Nak wrote:
First and foremost they wear better than single layer ropes.

You seem to use personal experience for this observation. Any thought as to why it wears better?


I'm not really sure why it wears better, I only know that it does. Something to do with how the rope holds it's shape is my guess, but I really don't know. I seem to wear out a single layer rope in about a season, but my most heavily used bar was modded in 2010 and shows very little wear. I initially did this because of the way Amsteel wears. There can be very little indication that the amsteel is about to fail. That's because of the weave. I figured I'd be able to limp back to the beach if the outer layer of this rope failed. The much better wear rate was an unexpected benefit.

SalmonSlayer wrote:

Nak wrote:
Put two drops of activator on the rope just below the loop.

Just below where the loop enters the line and is doubled up?

Yep. I'll edit the post and mark the area in the pics.

SalmonSlayer wrote:

Nak wrote:
Use a lot of pressure so that the rope diameter at the glue joint is as small as you can make it. Don't over work the joint. Once the joint is tight...

So you are pinching the doubled up line while rolling it between your thumb and forefinger. You say "donít overwork the joint" and "once the joint is tight". Does this mean you roll the joint slowly until it starts to stiffen up or just until you guesstimate the glue is distributed throughout the joint or ?
Just till you think the glue is distributed through the joint AND you've minimized the diameter of the rope. After that you want the glue to dry undisturbed. It's important to minimize the diameter of the rope, because if the glue hardens with the rope "puffed up" at all it can be difficult to install the rope in a Slingshot Compstick bar. Other bars may or may not be as critical.

Another Edit I'll make is to mention the Jerry Brown superglue. The loctite is cheaper and more readily available. If you'll be doing more than a couple of glue joints though, the Jerry Brown stuff comes with a whole lot more activator. It's in a bottle with a brush, and is enough to last a long, long, while. The Glue itself--both loctite and JB--has a shelf life of about six months, so toss it after that. You can replace the JB glue with the loctite glue after that and just use the JB activator. The JB glue set is about $25, the loctite is around $6 I think? Also, don't touch the super glue bottle to the line. Drop the drops onto the line. Just a couple of molecules of the activator getting into the superglue will harden the whole bottle.

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Nak

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PostWed Nov 13, 13 11:08 am    Re: How To: Making a Dual Layer Depower Rope Reply with quote

Sasquatch wrote:
Nak wrote:


Spin. . . back and forth between your thumb and forefinger . . .as small as you can make it. Don't over work the joint. Once the joint is tight and you're sure you worked the glue. . . You're done!



Man you Washingtonians are getting wasteful with your new recreational laws and all. You should always "clean you're plate" and not be wasteful. Yes, one should over work the joint till there is nothing left. And FYI, one doesn't have to use glue to seal up the rolling paper; just lick the end once that has adhesive on it and fold it over. Razz

Good post Nak!


LOL! Very Happy

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rePete

Since 18 Dec 2007
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PostWed Nov 13, 13 8:09 pm     Reply with quote

Thanks Nak, great post. I'll be replacing my depower lines this winter. I made up my own flying lines the year, thanks to you, with Jerry Brown 800# Spectra. I pre stretched it 400# and never had to re-tune my lines, worked perfectly! I've got dozens of session on them and no problems. Thanks again for spending the time to instruct us!

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Anthony

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PostThu Nov 14, 13 7:53 am     Reply with quote

Being a DIYer(Do it yourself) , I enjoy the write up. Where do you buy the rope / lines for all the line types for kiting? What do you estimate the cost difference would be between bought and make your own?

Thanks

Anthony

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Nak

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PostFri Nov 15, 13 2:13 pm     Reply with quote

I get the amsteel from Seattle Marine.
http://www.seattlemarine.net/productcart/pc/showSearchResults.asp?ProdSort=&iPageCurrent=1&iPageSize=10&PageStyle=p&customfield=0&SearchValues=&exact=0&keyword=amsteel&priceFrom=0&priceUntil=999999999&idCategory=0&IdSupplier=10&withStock=&IDBrand=0&order=1&SKU=

The place I got my Jerry Brown fishing line (Spectra kite line) went out of business; I need to find a new supplier.

Kite lines are about half price, a depower rope is about $4 once you've acquired the tools.

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rhorton1

Since 25 Oct 2012
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PostFri Nov 15, 13 2:24 pm     Reply with quote

Nak wrote:

The place I got my Jerry Brown fishing line (Spectra kite line) went out of business; I need to find a new supplier.



Long time lurker.... first time poster.

I made a 23M line set per Nak's instructions this past spring. Cost about $80 for 100M of #800 spectra, a splicing tool (basically a bent guitar string), and shipping from BHP Tackle.

http://www.bhptackle.com/home.php?cat=46

Probably saved $100 <-- Well worth a few hours effort!

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barfly

Since 31 Mar 2005
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PostTue Nov 19, 13 7:40 am     Reply with quote

I love this type of post. Nice work Nak! Thumb's Up

Would like a forum section "The Shop" for repairs, DYI, etc?

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JohnB

Since 02 Aug 2010
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PostTue Nov 19, 13 5:39 pm     Reply with quote

I have been looking at making my own depower rope and appreciate your write up Nak.

I know nothing about knots or rope so I have been researching fixed loops online and was thinking of using a Locked Brummel Spice instead of the super glue technique. Is there something I am overlooking on why this would not work?

Thanks

John

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Nak

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PostTue Nov 19, 13 8:17 pm     Reply with quote

Thanks Barfly!

JJ, I'm not sure, it would depend on the bar setup. I think it would be a little too thick of a splice on a Slingshot bar; it's a pretty tight fit as it is. You could lock the splice with thread as well, I just use super glue as it's quick and easy. The strength in all of these cases comes from the rope itself. The outer layer squeezing the inner layer is where all of the strength comes from. The lock only holds the splice in place when there's no tension on the line.

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MikeC

Since 16 Sep 2009
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PostWed Nov 20, 13 12:06 pm     Reply with quote

Is the loop at the end only 1/8 inch (1 line) vs the 3/16 for the single line, do you see a problem with wear or on just the 1/8 loop connecting to the quick release?

Thanks for the info

MikeC

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Nak

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PostWed Nov 20, 13 6:01 pm     Reply with quote

Hey Mike!

The portion of the line that is single layer is only used when initially rigging the bar. After rigging and tuning, that section is cut off. The tiny loop you see is what is attached to the Slingy chicken loop. Different bars may require a different loop size. As far as that tiny section connecting to the chicken loop, 1/8" amsteel is rated at 2200 pounds breaking strength. Since it's a loop, you're looking at 4400 pounds of strength. All of your kite lines will break before it does, and if they don't your body will be a pile of goo before it breaks. Very Happy Anyways, there's no wear at this point since there is no movement. (This is my attempt at humor, no intention whatsoever to poke fun at you. But my humor often sucks, hence the explanation.)

Main point here, it is not possible to break Amsteel of any size with your body weight. What kills Amsteel--the stock line--is wear. This mod will greatly reduce wear which will greatly increase lifespan of the line. Where will it finally fail? I have no idea as I've never seen one of these lines fail--or even come close to failing. A completely unexpected benefit--when I first made one of these lines-- is that adjusting depower is far easier than with a single layer rope. For that matter, I had no idea that wear would decrease as much as it does.

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Last edited by Nak on Wed Nov 20, 13 10:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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MikeC

Since 16 Sep 2009
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PostWed Nov 20, 13 7:21 pm     Reply with quote

Nak,

Thanks for the reply, really appreciate the info thanks so much.
I plan on setting up my bars using the double line setup.
Good winds to you.

MikeC

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JohnB

Since 02 Aug 2010
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PostThu Nov 28, 13 9:22 pm     Reply with quote

Made me a dual layered depower rope. Thanks Nak for the tips. I used a brummel splice instead of glue though. It cost about $7.00 for the rope compared to the $30.00 OEM replacement and should last longer. I did buy a real fid which cost like $8.00 and is nice to have since you don't need to mess with taping the rope as it is hollow with threads. Just cut 6 braids off then thread the fid on to the rope.







[URL=http://s946.photobucket.com/user/boyles714/media/20131128_001835_zpsb89a2b87.jpg.html]


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