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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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gionk

Since 29 Jul 2013
16 Posts
Portlandia
 



PostMon Jul 29, 13 6:33 am    New Here Reply with quote

Hi, I am new here. Have flown stunt kites before, but not power kites.. Been curious about kiteboarding for years, but only realized in the last month just how far the sport has come. I have wakeboarded a few times before, but never surfed yet. I think I have a genuine fear of the water, but I think some lessons will solve that.

I recently purchased a 2M trainer for learning to fly with depower/sheeting.
Took it to the park the other day in variable 9mph winds, and it flew like $hit.
I'm pretty sure the wind was too low for that size kite, as well as there being obstacles just outside the large football field I was at. never really had this trouble with my smaller stunt kites, but I think its just a different animal..
once I finally got it to fly(because it seemed like it only wanted to go backwards), I realized that if I held the bar almost past arms length it would fly better. pulling it in caused it to stall or fly backwards. the thing almost had no steering, and I crashed it several times. I blame it all on the low variable wind, changing wind direction, and the turbulence from all the stuff towering around me.. I knew better, but I just wanted to try the thing out..
the kite was supposed to be ready to fly, out of the bag. it came with virtually no instructions, and had china stickers all over it. NO website made any mention of the wind range on this thing. the only online manuals I can find, are out of date older models. im speaking of the oceanrodeo rise 2M.
appears to be very well made, but I have no way of verifying that its set up right.
I feel like it is, and that the conditions just weren't favorable..
researching sheeting and depowering online helped some, but I am still confused some. one check I did, was to see if my lines are the same length. they aren't, but close though. there is NO trim strap on this thing, and I see no options for other connection pts or knots on the kite/lines. any advice/help would be appreciated..

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jblum

Since 13 Jul 2008
306 Posts
The Gorge
Obsessed



PostMon Jul 29, 13 8:20 am    Lessons and... Reply with quote

Everyone on the forum will tell you to get lessons, and you should when you want to fly a larger kite. Staring with a small kite in a parking lot is mostly safe and you can learn some things if you know what to learn. Take some lessons and you'll have a better idea of what is useful and what is not.

As far as the setup, its probably right. Bad wind makes everything hard. Garbage in = garbage out. Sheeting out (flying w arms all the way out) will help the kite fly in lower wind, but the thing will steer poorly. Get some lessons and real wind.

Also, use the search feature on the forum to look for other beginner threads before asking more "newb" questions as most of your questions are already answered on here somewhere.

Good luck!

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Blazeheliski

Since 30 Mar 2011
659 Posts
Mosier
Addicted



PostMon Jul 29, 13 8:45 am     Reply with quote

Having a fear of the water is not really a good thing for kiteboarding. There will be times where you will have to swim, get dragged underwater or have to self rescue. If the water makes you panic - you will more than likely not make good decisions. You may want to consider swim type lessons (if aren't a good swimmer) or just some training to make you a stronger swimmer (swimming laps in a pool).

Snow kiting is a good option if you are afraid of the water. Of course lessons to actually fly the kite are a must.

A 2 meter trainer is probably too small for 9 mph inconsistent wind.

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1surfer

Since 20 Apr 2010
355 Posts
'Ualapu'e / High Rockies
Obsessed



PostMon Jul 29, 13 8:51 am    SPI Reply with quote

If you are super serious about learning, warm water that you can stand up in is the best environment to learn in. Snowkiting is also a great way to develop kite skills and get quick results.

If you can, go see Jason Norwood at SPI kiteboarding for a week. The intracoastal lagoon at South Padre is by for one of the best paces on earth to learn, comfortably.

The snow is good too because you dont have to deal with swimming. On the snow you can also learn to go back and forth in one day. Spending a winter on snow and then moving those kite skills to water in the spring is also a great way to go.

Avoid learning in cold water and or places with minimal options to get out safely when you drift down wind.

Dont be afraid to ask others and locals for a briefing on the area and for help when needed.

When in doubt, stay " SAFE".

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Ozone Reo's. C&k Beach Boy Service, Windsurfing Waikiki, Hawaiian Windriders, NSRN.

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gionk

Since 29 Jul 2013
16 Posts
Portlandia
 



PostMon Jul 29, 13 8:56 am     Reply with quote

maybe "fear" wasn't the right term. I think "respect" is what I meant.
I have every intention of taking lessons, and yes I know how to use the search.
I frequent forums for other hobbies.. was just an intro, with some questions.

i guess my main question was regarding specifically the rise 2m, which I find very little specific info on. the manufacturer, as well as the people who sell them, give very little info for a new person. no manual, no adjustment info, no troubleshooting, no wind range. hell, they don't even tell you what color you're getting...

im pretty sure the wind was to blame, and my lack of understanding on how the sheeting works. next time I will extend my arms when it stalls, instead of pulling in.
2 line stunt kites is all I know.

thanks in to all who have helpful suggestions Very Happy
you guys have so far answered/verified some of the basic kite flying questions I had.
now I just need to understand the rise 2M..

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JeffT

Since 07 Jul 2012
238 Posts
Deep Southern Portland
Stoked



PostMon Jul 29, 13 9:21 am     Reply with quote

I just watched the video on this trainer kite and it looks awesome! I believe you have two issues going on (from your description):
1) the wind was too light. You most likely need 10-15mph minimum. The cleaner the wind the better. Make sure you have no trees or buildings up wind of you.
2) Because the kite was stalling unless your arms were very extended the steering lines (outside) need to be lengthened. It looks like there is a couple adjustments knots; use the longest one. If you are already doing this and it still has a problem you can decrease the length of the center line by putting some knots in it.
(but i would not mess with the line lengths until you get a chance to fly it in stronger and cleaner wind)


Link

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Jeff

Last edited by JeffT on Mon Jul 29, 13 9:31 am; edited 1 time in total

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Blazeheliski

Since 30 Mar 2011
659 Posts
Mosier
Addicted



PostMon Jul 29, 13 9:25 am     Reply with quote

If wind is light - and you sheet in - you will stall the kite. Instead of sheeting in as a response to the light wind - try getting the kite to move. Loops, figure eights, moving across the wind window, etc. Stay sheeted out while doing all of this and the kite will be less likely to stall.

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gionk

Since 29 Jul 2013
16 Posts
Portlandia
 



PostMon Jul 29, 13 9:26 am     Reply with quote

yep, that video is all they got. ive literally watched it 20 times, mostly before I took it out the first time. I also hand typed all the text from the video into something I could take with me to the field. Wink that was nice to have.

I set the thing up in my living room the night after I flew it and went over the thing with a fine tooth comb. I could not find any adjustment options. did find some weird Velcro tabs on it near the tips, that seem to serve no purpose. (a manual would clear that up)

I could not get the thing to fly more than 15 seconds. could not get even close to sining or figure 8's. just not windy enough haha

would be pretty cool if it had a trim loop or whatever its called.. the manual oceanrodeo has online shows an older LEI kite that has one. this one doesn't.


had I known the wind range ahead of time, I prob would have never tried to fly it that day. lessons learned here.. thanks again guys!!! Very Happy Very Happy

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D-Krep It Kiter

Since 18 Jul 2011
417 Posts

Obsessed



PostMon Jul 29, 13 10:03 am     Reply with quote

I have the Ocean Rodeo 2m Rise. I know exactly what you are talking about. The first thing to understand with that kite is that it is very heavy for its size. 9mph isn't nearly enough wind to get that thing going. To work with the OC Rise 2m, here's what to do:

1) get your two line flying down pat. With your two-line, you should be able to:

-fly the kite without having your arms "follow" the kite, instead, elbows tucked at your sides, and you're simply pulling right or left to steer the kite. You need to have this skill down cold before your take on that OC 2m.

-be able to keep the kite in one position. At eleven, at one, but keep the kite stable in the air.

-fly the kite with a minimum of input on the bar. Small moves, control the kite at all times.

2) Ready for the 2m Rise.

-Go out to a spot with plenty of room, like the sandbar (but if you go to the sandbar, stay well back from the western shoreline... pick a spot in the middle where there is no one around).

-make sure there is plenty of wind... you want to see whitecaps on the water. This kite will not fly well at all in light winds.

-treat the 2m Rise as you would a full-size kite. Understand your safety system and how to deploy it. Launch the kite as you would a normal four-line kite, though you may want to make the launch a little "hotter" (deeper in the wind window) so that you have plenty of power in the kite.

-Launch-here's the tricky part... as soon as you launch this thing, sheet OUT on the bar and allow the kite to go up to noon above you. Remember, this thing can react super fast... if you pull too much on the bar, or are just generally being really sloppy, the kite is going to zip back and forth across the wind window. In enough wind this kite can and will lift you off the ground. I recommend you fly it sitting down for this reason.

-If you survived the launch, and now have the kite up at noon and in control, move it to 11 or 1, or better yet, just move it gently back & forth across the wind window. Don't go nuts, it will get away from you really fast. Just focus on keeping the kite in the air and using the sheeting in & out to control the kite.

The kite has a very limited power-depower range. If you over-sheet, the kite will stall and crash. You may also notice that you can have the kite at noon, and by sheeting in all the way, actually have the kite sink down slowly all the way to the ground. This isn't normal, its just the kite can be stalled very easily. Remember: you're going to need to sheet out quite a bit of the time to keep this thing in the air, and at first, make your left and right movements very small... use just a little bar pressure until you get used to the kite. With practice, you'll be able to sheet in more and fly the kite all over the place... when you try that, keep the kite moving fast... the more you sheet in, the faster that kite needs to be moving to prevent stalling.

Once you can control the kite, try some power strokes and just have fun with it. You'll actually find a full-sized kite easier to fly once you've mastered this thing.

Good luck!

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gionk

Since 29 Jul 2013
16 Posts
Portlandia
 



PostMon Jul 29, 13 10:19 am     Reply with quote

thanks!! great advice from someone whos got one! Very Happy

reminds me of when I learned to fly rc helicopters. I mastered the little twitchy ones, and now the giant ones I fly are so much less stressful(and more expensive).

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gionk

Since 29 Jul 2013
16 Posts
Portlandia
 



PostMon Jul 29, 13 10:23 am     Reply with quote

here's some info from the guy I just talked to at ocean rodeo:

-flies best in 15-30mph, most fun in 18-25mph. handful at upper end.
-there is no manual, and they are working on a new one.
-there is no trimming option, though one could improvise...
-color choices are whatever china sends them. if you don't specify, you get what you get. blue is the only color shown online, anywhere.

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Moto

Since 03 Sep 2006
2698 Posts
Still a gojo pimp!
Moto Mouth



PostMon Jul 29, 13 10:36 am     Reply with quote

Hey Gionk - if you saw a guy running around the football field and then offered to try and launch you - that was me.

I saw your set up. It looked like you had it dialed in right.

The wind was crap that day. It was constantly changing and it was too light.

As others have pointed out if you sheet out (push the bar away from your belly) when you are under powered it actually helps your kite not fall out of the sky. But it makes it harder to steer. Your steering lines are your outside lines and when you push the bar away from your belly it actually lengthens the steering lines and ads more slack to the steering lines- the slack means the kite responds slower.

As for the 2m ocean rodeo rise - I've never had one of these kites - but I do know that ocean rodeo makes solid kites.

Your best be for practicing with your trainer is to go somewhere where you have more consistent winds. That park where you were at has a bunch of trees and obstacles that will mess with the flow of the wind.

Good luck and welcome to the sport and welcome to nwkite.

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Still rockin gojos, *ssless chaps, and ankle weights!

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JeffT

Since 07 Jul 2012
238 Posts
Deep Southern Portland
Stoked



PostMon Jul 29, 13 10:40 am     Reply with quote

really OT but I also fly RC helicopters! This is also my first season kiting. I haven't flown my helis all summer as I've been kiting practically every weekend! I'm holding on to my helis for now as I might go back to RC once the wind dies (but it's not looking good -lol).
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Jeff

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D-Krep It Kiter

Since 18 Jul 2011
417 Posts

Obsessed



PostMon Jul 29, 13 11:07 am     Reply with quote

gionk wrote:

-flies best in 15-30mph, most fun in 18-25mph. handful at upper end.

-there is no trimming option, though one could improvise...


Yep... lots of wind is what you need. We actually modified ours and equipped it with a full functioning chicken loop after the Ocean Rodeo velcro one wore out. I got the chicken loop at Gorge Performance pretty cheap. The only option for trimming is adjusting where the center line attaches to the chicken loop. It is really finicky to dial in and find the perfect spot where sheeting out depowers the kite but the rear lines aren't so slack that you have no control. Once you dial it in, the kite can be fun really fun to fly though.

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gionk

Since 29 Jul 2013
16 Posts
Portlandia
 



PostMon Jul 29, 13 11:52 am     Reply with quote

thanks to everyone who is chiming in here. the new guy appreciates it! Very Happy

Moto wrote:
Hey Gionk - if you saw a guy running around the football field and then offered to try and launch you - that was me.

thanks again Moto! that's crazy that you happened to be there. yep, sucky scenario for first flight.. If I snap my fingers, will you appear again the next time? Cool

JeffT wrote:
really OT but I also fly RC helicopters! This is also my first season kiting. I haven't flown my helis all summer as I've been kiting practically every weekend! I'm holding on to my helis for now as I might go back to RC once the wind dies (but it's not looking good -lol).


Right on JeffT Very Happy

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Scribble

Since 18 Nov 2005
636 Posts
NoPo
Addicted



PostMon Jul 29, 13 12:50 pm     Reply with quote

I don't know where you live but I used to go to to Broughton Beach out by the airport when I was learning. It was a great place for a trainer kite.

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gionk

Since 29 Jul 2013
16 Posts
Portlandia
 



PostMon Jul 29, 13 1:12 pm     Reply with quote

Scribble wrote:
I don't know where you live but I used to go to to Broughton Beach out by the airport when I was learning. It was a great place for a trainer kite.


I will keep that in mind. thanks!
how are the crowds, and is it ok to fly a kite that close to an airport? sounds silly since its low altitude, but there are rules with rc aircraft anyway

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