SS Turbine Review, 4 knot Self Launch Video Added

Nak · Since 19 May 2005 4203 Posts Camas XTreme Poster **CGKA Member**

EDITED TO ADD 4 KNOT SELF LAUNCH VIDEO AFTER FULL REVIEW. More videos to come later.

Hola!

In the Turbine introduction thread, lots of folks had questions about the Turbine that they felt weren't addressed. Being the nice guy that I am, I offered to take a Turbine to Cancun with me to test out. Very Happy

Shy, being very confident in the kite PMed me and set the demo up. Cool.

I'm halfway through my week here in Cancun, and I thought I'd give a mini review so that if anyone has any questions I could try and check them out. BTW, I'm using a glide. Again, this is a MINI review. I'll be much more thorough when I get back home.

First off, I am the only kiter I have seen on the water all week. My wind meter has yet to read anything more than 8 knots. I've seen a bunch of kites on the beach, but none have made it out onto the water. It's kind of funny. About 15 minutes after I ride down hotel row, there will be half a dozen kites in the air-- on the beach. They see me riding and figure they're good to go I guess. But nobody has managed to ride except me. All I can tell you about the other kites is that they look big. Looked like a variety of kite types. Given that I am no lightweight,--or even a mediumweight--that should tell you most of what you need to know about the Turbine.

If there's enough wind to fly the kite, it'll reverse relaunch. It does take a slightly different technique, more on that later. Below about 3 or 4 knots, the kite comes out of the sky. But, it does it in a very controllable manner. Video to come. 4 to 6 knots and it'll reverse relaunch just fine. 6 knots and above and this kite just wants to fly. Easiest relaunch ever. OK, get this: 7 to 8 knots and I'm going upwind and doing small jumps. In choppy ocean water. At my weight that is nothing short of amazing.

I doubt I'll get up to Isla Blanca this week for a variety of reasons. Sad

So no flat water review. But figure it'll be a lot better in butter than in ocean chop.

Long story short, the Turbine is one incredible lightwind kite. Fun to fly, easy to fly one handed, literally gets you out on the water when everyone else is just sitting there.

The internet sucks at my hotel, so don't be surprised if I don't post again for a few days...

EDITED TO ADD FULL REVIEW

OK, Here’s the full, un-abridged review of the Slingshot Turbine. I’m the kind of guy who always jumps to the conclusions first, and then reads the review. That’s how I’m going to write this review. Do read the mini review above as well. Videos to come later.
First, to be perfectly clear, this kite was lent to me by Shy. I got no deal on it, and I have to give it back. Sad

Test Conditions:
Hotel row in Cancun. Choppy ocean water with a 2 to 3 foot break. Rider: 235 pounds. Board: Slingshot Glide. Three days riding, two sessions each day of an hour to an hour and a half. A couple of the sessions were launch/relaunch tests only. Wind measurement: Kestrel 1000 with a brand new impellor purchased specifically for this test.

My experience:
Riding since 2004. Kites owned: Naish, Best, Slingshot, Ocean Rodeo, Cabrinha. I’ve tried a number of “lightwind kites” including a 19m bow kite.

A word about windspeeds: I tried my best to get accurate wind readings. I installed a brand new impellor with bearings in my Kestrel 1000. I took wind readings before and after every test or session. Is it possible that I’m off on the numbers? Of course! The wind can change between readings, wind 15 feet in the air could be different than on the surface. However, as everything was consistent day to day, I feel pretty good about these numbers.

Conclusions:
Wow, I love this kite! It defined an entirely new range of light wind for me. Before, I defined light wind as 10-15 knots. Now, I define it as 6-10 knots. The most wind I saw this week was 7-8 knots. 8 knots was the highest my meter read the whole week. I saw as low as 2 knots. with 7-8 knots I could ride upwind and do small jumps in choppy water. In 6-7 knots I could make slight upwind progress less than 6 knots and I couldn’t get past the shore break. I believe, though I can not swear to it, that I would have been able to go upwind in 6 knots—given butter smooth water. If I was able to ride, I could relaunch the kite. The entire week, I was the only kiter out on the water. I saw others try, with what looked to be very large kites, but they never got past the shore break, if they rode at all. That should tell you most of what you want to know. Truly a kite that gets you out on the water while everyone else sits on the beach.

Review:

Construction:
Typical Slingshot. Nothing I could fault and much to be happy with. One interesting detail: the wingtips taper almost to a point. I haven’t seen that before, but a sound idea aerodynamically. Nice attention to detail. I weighed the kite: sure enough 8.8 pounds. Pretty darn light for a 17m kite. No pulleys.

Flight Characteristics:
The bar pressure is light, the lightest I’ve felt in a Slingshot kite. Still plenty to feel the kite though. The light bar pressure makes for great one handed flying. The longer bars that come with bigger kites exact a penalty: much greater turning pressure because of the longer moment arm when flying the kite with one hand in the center of the bar. The light bar pressure mitigates that with the Turbine.

Back stalling is non-existent on this kite. I had one session where I was struggling to ride, I had to go upwind in the gusts; I needed that extra knot. During this time I tried to get the kite to back stall. All I could do was slow it down. Shy credits Slingshots “Auto-sheeting” for this. Apparently, if the kite is stalling the wing deforms in a way that prevents the stall. I don’t quite understand the execution, but it certainly works. The best kite I’ve ever flown when it comes to back stalling, bar none.

Upwind capability is outstanding, as noted in the Conclusions.

The Turbine self launches and relaunches amazingly easy given the wind. Now, I was never able to test self launch by attaching the chickenloop to an anchor, so I can’t speak to it’s stability in that maneuver. In a normal self launch with 7 to 8 knots the kite rolls up onto it’s wingtip all by itself as you walk to the side of the window. In fact, I was unable to attempt a reverse relaunch in these conditions; the kite merely put itself on it’s side on the edge of the window no matter what I did. (I was unwilling to slam it straight down downwind, I just couldn’t bring myself to do that.) Once the wind stayed below seven knots I used a form of reverse relaunch. Grab both leaders about halfway up and pull in. As the kite rises off the ground I could rotate it almost in place and let it launch. I’ve got a video of this technique. (Coming soon.) Once the wind dropped a bit further, I had to grab the bridals a little further up and jerk them a couple of times to get the kite to lift off. Once off the ground the kite was easy to rotate and launch. In one VERY lightwind launch the kite fell back to the ground as it rotated into a hot launch position. A quick grab of the front lines popped the kite quickly in to the air. The jerk technique was sometimes required in lightwind reverse relaunches from the water, but was effective in all cases. (A word about lightwind reverse relaunches with any kite: they are much easier to perform if you put your board on your feet and use it as a brake. The kite sees greater wind because you’re not being pulled downwind so quickly.)

For self landing, normal techniques work well, but you have to be very aggressive or the kite will pop right back into the air.

As the windspeed falls below min flying speed, the kite settles nicely on the side of the wind window. It didn’t Hindenburg once on me, or even act like it might. Video to come.

Turning speed is quite quick for a 17m, I’d have to say just a bit faster than a 14m T2 or a 15m REV. Look at the videos to get a feel for it. Judging turn speed is somewhat subjective. The kite tends to rotate in place during a turn, decreasing power. Once the kite starts forward power builds quickly and smoothly.

As noted above, power delivery is smooth and constant. The kite pulls well even when parked, but apparent wind increases give large increases in power. A very slow descent of the kite was enough to stop going downwind and move upwind in underpowered conditions. The effective use of apparent wind makes this kite deceiving. On my first session, I was convinced I did not have enough wind to ride. I worked a bit out in to the water and waited quite a while for a gust. I just felt no power in the kite at all. Finally, I thought “screw it”. I dove the kite; much to my surprise there was a strong smooth pull that popped me right up and started me upwind and through the break immediately. I know I use the word “smooth” a lot when it comes to this kite. That’s just how it felt, very smooth. Hard to explain, but there it is.

It’s hard to say much about boosts. With eight knots gusts at best, and my weight, I could only get 2 or 3 feet of air. Of course, the fact that I could get ANY air is amazing at that wind speed. Seemed easy to execute and floaty for the wind. It is a big kite though. You have to plan ahead a bit as it doesn’t snap around like an 8m or a 10m. Fast for what it is, but it is big.

Overall much more fun to fly than a 14m T2, and loads more low end. A 14m Rally is more fun to fly of course, but the 17m Turbine takes you into a whole new world of light wind kiting. The Turbine far, far surpassed the light wind characteristics of any kite I've ever flown. The 19m Bow kite I flew was not at all in the same category as the Turbine; nothing I've flown is.

Recommendations:
Who should buy a Turbine? That depends on where you ride of course. I made a post in a turbine thread last year that if you lived here in the Gorge, you had no need for anything bigger than a 14m kite. I retract that statement; I was wrong. After riding with the Turbine, whole new areas are open to consideration. How many days have I been out on the boat with the family on the Columbia around Portland? How many days was there 7 knots of wind and I never even considered kiting? With a Turbine, a quick one hour session while the family lays in the sun becomes possible… Anyone that spends time at Sauvies should really consider a Turbine. Another thing I’ve never contemplated before: what about those 7 knot days at the coast when the water is so glassy? Just cruising downwind looking for sea life could be so cool. You know how many days I’ve sat on the beach in Kailua with the wind meter reading 8 knots? More than I can count. It’s a no-brainer there, or San Diego, or Florida, or anywhere else where 6-8 knot winds are common. What if you travel? The Turbine was a lifesaver for me in Cancun. Without it, I wouldn't have ridden even once.

Is the Turbine expensive? Sure it is. You have to ask yourself though, how expensive is a cheaper kite that doesn’t get you out on the water? I’d rather spend $2200 on a kite that I rode with than spend $800 dollars on a kite that I sat on the beach with. If at all possible, demo the Turbine on a day you thought there’d be no chance to ride…

Highly Recommended.

VIDEOS

Here's a self launch of a Slingshot 17m Turbine, 2012. Prior to the launch wind was around 4 knots, as seen on the wind meter. Lulls down to 2.4 knots, gusts up to 4.4 knots. Afterwards, the wind was staying more around 3 knots. I did not backup to help the launch, I stayed right in place throughout the launch attempt. After the kite launched, there was a definite lull, I couldn't keep the kite in the air but it came down rather nicely and controllable. In these light winds just pulling one one back line to bring a wingtip up didn't work for the launch. But grabbing the leaders about halfway up and giving a couple of jerks lifted the kite off in reverse. (The same technique worked well in the water during relaunches.) Once airborne just a bit it was pretty easy to rotate the Turbine into a hot launch position where it took off nicely.

(BTW, that is not a 2012 bar, It's a modded 2011 bar...) Also, no hate because of the umbrella on the right; it's further away than it looks. The Jetski guy had helped setup and it was his choice to be where he was.

Link

rePete · Since 18 Dec 2007 215 Posts Mosier, Oregon Stoked

Hey Nak, thanks for the review! How's the turning speed, bar pressure and back stalling? Interested in a big kite for snow kiting, and turning speed is always the issue with big kites. What size is the Turbine? I can just imagine how the guys on shore are feeling watching you ripping back and forth! Y

Campbell · Since 07 Sep 2008 409 Posts Camas, WA Obsessed

Thanks for the review Nak. I am mentally deleting all you just wrote however. I REALLY don't want to have to buy another kite. Mad

undertow · Since 15 Feb 2008 371 Posts BeaversBurg Obsessed

The only use for a kite that big in Oregon is snowkiting (In Idaho), or light wind days at the coast (not too many)

Now if in San Diego.... Or Cancun

beech · Since 21 Aug 2010 483 Posts Longview, WA Obsessed

I got in a sesh at Jones last sunday on my new (to me) 17m. Barely got the kite in the air on the beach, but once I was in the channel, got going upwind nicely. I won't say the brand but it rhymes with SNOWZONE. Rolling Eyes

Got rid of my 15m now my big kites are 13m and 17m. Love the 2010 snowzone bar too.

I bet that turbine is the ticket in cancun. Thumb's Up

Wind Slither · Since 04 Mar 2005 2575 Posts The 503 METAL

undertow · Since 15 Feb 2008 371 Posts BeaversBurg Obsessed

Sella · Thu May 03, 12 11:40 am

Very smart of Shy to demo this kite with the testing guru. I can see a whole other job for you in your future Nak when that whole "airline pilot thing" gets old. Wink

Seriously, I'm liking the knot range you're testing in. I was hoping this kite can get you out and playing in the 4-8 knot range. At 10 knots many kites with the right board will get you upwind on the water IMO. Heck, your 15m Rev you're selling/sold for $300 comes to mind so as much as I would like this Turbine to truly be next level processing $2k+ for mowing Columbia's lawn....when I should be mowing my real lawn will test my better judgement and marriage probably. If you say you can launch that thing in 4 to 5 knots, dump it in the water, relaunch and stay upwind all day....I'll be impressed....and figure out how to live without the wife.

BKA · Since 19 May 2011 43 Posts Harrison

Spent some time on the 17m taboo, 17m fat lady, and 17m turbine and I would have to say that it doesnt relaunch well in 4 knots if at all but if you do its because its gusting 8ish or more.

Turbine is a nicely built kite does well in light wind but is not the quickest 17m out there nor the best bottom end out of the 3.

Sella · Thu May 03, 12 5:21 pm

Nak · Wed May 09, 12 9:09 am

First post edited to add full review. Videos to come.

Nak · Wed May 09, 12 9:36 am

Kataku2k3 · Since 14 Aug 2005 3753 Posts Los Angeles, CA Videographer

Nice write up, Mike! Thumb's Up

Nak · Wed May 09, 12 10:57 am

shymac · Since 20 Jul 2005 919 Posts Home Valley, Wa. Bigfoot

Link

Sella · Wed May 09, 12 12:52 pm

Excellent! Thanks for taking the time Mike and I agree with you there is a time and a place for a kite like that in the Gorge but there are 1000 global spots where that kite would be stellar. You were in Cancun 3 days and pulled double sessions everyday. If I was in a warm water spot blowing 6-8 knots, but could not kite, I would be going crazy.

Mierda.....more $$ more $$ more $$. Very Happy

Nak · Thu May 10, 12 12:57 pm

4 knot self launch video added to first post.