Say NO to coal trains in the gorge

moondog · Tue Sep 27, 11 11:21 am **Say NO to coal trains in the gorge**

Wyoming and Montana are planning to ship 26 loaded coal trains thru the GORGE every day to feed the energy needs of Asia. Coal dust escaping from open air trains and terminals is toxic and ends up in our neighborhoods and rivers affecting fish and all recreation in the gorge. There will be a meeting Thursday, Sept. 29 from 7-8 pm at the Springhouse Cellar Winery. It is on the east side of the Mt. Hood train depot parking lot in Hood River . For more info visit: www.coalfreeoregon.gov.

SalmonSlayer · Since 27 Nov 2005 648 Posts Addicted **CGKA Member**

Your link does not seem to work.

moondog · Tue Sep 27, 11 8:38 pm

sorry try: www.coalfreeoregon.org

Jonpnw · Wed Sep 28, 11 7:38 am **ILWU?**

So if the kiteboarders protest will the longshoremen take us hostage and damage the kite shops? Sad

SalmonSlayer · Since 27 Nov 2005 648 Posts Addicted **CGKA Member**

Maybe I missed it, but, there is zero scientific evidence that coal cars are "spewing" coal toxic dust in the gorge at unsafe levels in the article linked. Articles like this are written to leverage emotions such as fear instead of using peer reviewed scientific evidence. Certainly the Sierra Club can do better than that.

pdxmonkeyboy · Wed Sep 28, 11 9:19 am

They do spew dust but there are also several methods to limit that dust.

saleeba · Since 05 Mar 2006 238 Posts Masshole Stoked

There is however plenty of scientific evidence which supports the negative effects of mining and burning coal for energy. Allowing the coal trains to run through the gorge supports big coal companies. Here's 2 out of 549 retrieved from a health care research database using the keyword coal dust:

Mortality in Appalachian coal mining regions: the value of statistical life lost.
Hendryx M, Ahern MM.

CONCLUSIONS:
Research priorities to reduce Appalachian health disparities should focus on reducing disparities in the coalfields. The human cost of the Appalachian coal mining economy outweighs its economic benefits.

Relations between health indicators and residential proximity to coal mining in West Virginia.
Hendryx M, Ahern MM.Source
Department of Community Medicine, West Virginia University, One Medical Center Dr, PO Box 9190, Morgantown, WV 26506, USA. mhendryx@hsc.wvu.edu

Discussion:Among West Virginia adults, residential proximity to heavy coal production was associated with poorer health status and with higher risk for cardiopulmonary disease, chronic lung disease, hypertension, and kidney disease, after we controlled for covariates.

borntofli · Since 29 Apr 2010 90 Posts

I'm sorry we dont want to live in the stone age..... If that is what you want, there's lots of places in the world you can go and do this.....

I'm all for limiting toxic substances,, but this is ridiculous....

Cows farting have been deemed hazardous, death to all cows??????

You need a rectal cranialotomy.... (Pull your head out of your ass)

Just my opinion

mystery curd · Since 14 Jun 2010 98 Posts Floating

Your "opinion" sucks. It's either all or nothing? Get some nuance.

SalmonSlayer · Since 27 Nov 2005 648 Posts Addicted **CGKA Member**

mystery curd · Since 14 Jun 2010 98 Posts Floating

On this we find a modicum of agreement, salmon. Aside from the obviously bizarre idea that we ship coal to China, it seems that if you are going to ship coal dust 1500 miles it should at least be in closed containers. We should all be in agreement on that. Secondly, I am not trying to ship coal 1500 miles across our country. Therefore it is not up to the objectors to this prove that such an action would be detrimental to our health. It is the coal and train companies responsibility to prove that shipping uncovered coal is not dangerous. Backed up back objective, non bias research prior to initiating any shipments of coal. These corporations have the burden of proof that their actions will not not harm us and as an extension our environment. Anything that can be asserted without evidence can be refuted without evidence. As a side note, why is it that righties seem to always come down on the side of giving people cancer? Republicans work diligently apparently to remove regulations and oversite of large corporations, even going so.far as to say that the epa should be abolished all together! I'm just a simple guy, but if you find yourself on the same team as cancer, I think you need to re evaluate your political leanings. The real question is why would you WANT toxic coal shipped through the gorge? And does that reason trump the consequences?

kitezilla · Since 22 Jun 2006 453 Posts gorge Obsessed

Could it be that coal dust is explosive... and that is the reason for not enclosing the coal cars?

pdxmonkeyboy · Fri Sep 30, 11 11:00 am

we should ship them fucking wind turbines not coal.

If you stop sending them coal, then they may stop manufacturing our kites....

C Johnson · Since 17 Apr 2009 854 Posts Seattle Opinionated

this is old news.....

Here's the original thread about it.

http://www.nwkite.com/forums/t-23723.html&highlight=coal

We need to sell that coal to china so we can pay for our overpriced crappy wind turbines that don't work as well as we'd like to think.

Consider myself irritated that we have regulated ourselves out of being able to use our own natural resources.

Nak · Fri Sep 30, 11 1:57 pm

It's really disgusting flying over China, Smog layers that go for 500 miles. I remember a couple of years ago China officially passed us in pollution. That really cracked me up; that anyone would even consider believing the "Official" numbers on CO2 and pollution from China. I've been flying over China for quite a while, and I promise you that their real numbers are at the very least triple ours. And that is being conservative. By a lot. I used to think SO Cal had pollution, till I started flying to China. The very worst day I ever saw in LA was absolutely nothing compared to huge stretches of China. I mean stretches as big as Oregon. Each. People complained about the pollution in Beijing for the Olympics. Sure Beijing is bad, but nothing at all, and I mean nothing, compared to other sections of China, the industrial sections tourists don't see.

I'm not so sure selling China coal and risking the environment in the Gorge is such a good idea. Yes, it would help our balance of trade. If they're going to get the coal anyway, maybe we should consider it. But you have to ask, is it really smart to sell energy to a country that is crushing us from a manufacturing standpoint? A country that still has a stated goal of world domination? A country that still has a stated military goal of sinking a US Carrier task force? (The stated goal IS NOT the ability to do such, but to actually accomplish that task.) Should we really be risking our environment, and helping the Chinese seriously damage the world's environment, to help them surpass us economically and militarily?

The Chinese are smart. Very smart. They have adapted to a capitalist economy with a totalitarian communist government. They read Ronald Reagan's book, and are using precisely the same strategies dealing with us that Reagan used dealing with the USSR. Their economy and manufacturing capacity grow each year while we stagnate and shrink. They encourage our enemies behind the scenes while remaining free of conflict that would drain their economy and military. We piss away our resources and young people fighting foreign wars that in the end are just creating allies for our enemies. (If Iraq was still a power, do you honestly think for an instant that Iran would be able to enter the "Nuclear Club"?) Exactly what Reagan did in the 80's. Where is the USSR now? Try and find it on a map.

People make the mistake of thinking that China has become "good guys". We trade with them, so they must be OK. Maybe in time they'll transition to a more passive country. But not any time in the forseeable future. The next generation of Chinese leaders are far more hardline than current leaders.

Think I'm exaggerating? Why do you think we did NOTHING when North Korea threatened to NUKE Honolulu recently. For you folks that missed the cold war, Nuking Honolulu would DESTROY the island of Oahu and KILL every man, woman, and child there. And that's just for starters. North Korea HAS both the weapons capability and the delivery systems to make good on that threat. We did nothing because China supports North Korea. Soon, North Korea will have the ability to hit the West Coast. What do you think that would do to the environment in the Gorge? LA, SFO, SEA, and yes, PDX would be targets. SEA and PDX would be primary over the southern cities, primarily because of the range involved. I'm not talking out my ass here. I flew the Airborne Command Post (Post Attack Command & Control) during the cold war. I studied this stuff. I lived this stuff. The real, no shit, end of the world plans. If you don't think North Korea is serious, go visit the DMZ. Fly into Seoul and listen to SOMEBODY jam your radios--in a commercial airliner--and try and talk you into a small mistake that would violate North Korean airspace. (The North Koreans warn that any such intrusion--regardless of cause--would result in the aircraft in question being shot down without warning.) Gee, I wonder who does that jamming?

So, think about this. Transporting coal through the Gorge carries the risk of environmental damage at least. That is a fact. Selling coal to China has both long term economic and security dangers to the USA. That is a fact. That same sale carries short term, minor economic advantage to a small area in the mountain states. That is also a fact. It boils down to three facts. Two bad for the US, one mildly good. Liberal or conservative; Republican, Democrat or Libertarian; Logger or Tree Hugger, it should be clear where we should stand on this as Americans.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we shouldn't trade with China; we should. Trade is the best hope for eventually transforming China into a moderate country. (Yes, buying kites from China is OK.) But trade in STRATEGIC commodities should be considered very carefully. Selling steel to Japan prior to WWII is now pretty much universally accepted by military historians as a contributing factor leading to war. Do we really want to risk contributing to WWIII? And risk the Gorge, even the entire world environment, to do so? There is NO long term upside to this.

I urge everybody, regardless of your political leanings, to call or email your Senators and Congressmen and voice your opposition to this sale. Today's politicians, from all parties, have a very short term world outlook. As American citizens, it is our duty to show them the long term considerations. It's your world you'll be saving.

pdxmonkeyboy · Fri Sep 30, 11 2:28 pm

Damn Nak! You pretty much hit that one out of the park. Good work sir.

Kraemer · Since 24 Apr 2006 1736 Posts Sky Pilot Unicorn Captain