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kite shoulder question
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wemolly

Since 02 Aug 2008
9 Posts

Kook



PostSun Sep 04, 11 2:31 pm    kite shoulder question Reply with quote

I ride a directional toeside a lot. As a result of that (and other things) I've torn my bicep tendon and have a partial tear, about 30%, of my rotator cuff. Regarding the bicep the advice has been pretty consistent, rehab only. But I'm getting conflicting advice about repairing the rotator cuff. Some say do the surgery quickly and some say do rehab and forget surgery.

Has anyone had partial rotator tearing and what did you do about it? One note, I'm 66 and kiting conservatively (because of the shoulder et al). Age and activity are a factor in treatment I'm told.

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consumer

Since 28 Nov 2010
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PostSun Sep 04, 11 2:54 pm     Reply with quote

If it's a partial tear of rotator cuff muscles/tendons you should be able to recover. What will a surgeon do for a partial tear beyond damaging more tissue in the process of getting to the deep rotator cuff muscles?

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consumer

Since 28 Nov 2010
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PostSun Sep 04, 11 2:56 pm     Reply with quote

My wife made me post this second point- she thinks you should consider acupuncture.

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eric

Since 13 Jan 2006
1861 Posts

XTreme Poster



PostSun Sep 04, 11 3:01 pm     Reply with quote

Go see someone who only does shoulders, if you have not already done so. Super impressed with Mark Colville at Rebound in PDX/Vancouver WA. There are other good shoulder folks as well.

Eric

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wemolly

Since 02 Aug 2008
9 Posts

Kook



PostSun Sep 04, 11 3:34 pm    More on shoulder Reply with quote

One more note. The conflicting advice I'm getting is from ortho docs, as well as ER doc and friends.

Warren

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hermanski

Since 08 Sep 2008
11 Posts

 



PostSun Sep 04, 11 6:02 pm     Reply with quote

I partially tore my left rotator cuff while skiing just after I turned 50. My road to recovery was intense, often painful physio and a very regimented exercise workout schedule with rubber bands, weights etc. for about 6months. It worked great... my shoulder is as strong and steady as ever....I'm now 58. It took about 2 years to be able to sleep on that side of my body again without pain.
I also had recommendations for surgery that I was hesitant about.
My thought was even if I had surgery I still would have had to do physio and or exercise to build up the muscles again post op because my shoulder looked like it had been deflated.
I was glad I found a therapist who's attitude was no pain no gain.....let's get going immediately. Contrary to my family physician who wanted to put my arm in a sling for a couple of weeks first. Apparently that's the worst thing you can do....inactivity.
Best of luck!

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Boost

Since 09 Mar 2006
30 Posts
Pacific North Wet
 



PostSun Sep 04, 11 8:42 pm     Reply with quote

Take it from someone who is constantly battling shoulder injuries (Primarily cuff tears from lifting at the gym).

Rest & Rehab.

Rehab -Take it easy, but do VERY LIGHT resistance training (Physical Therapy)

Rest - NOT "inactivity" which will lead to atrophy and stiffness that will cause the ligament to improperly heal.

Time - Depending on how bad the tear is an RC can take 1 to 2 years to properly heal and rehab.

Surgery - I've never met an ortho that didn't want to cut me open. Think of it as a last resort. The damage to the tissue surrounding the surgical incision is painful and slow to heal.

Invest in one of these......http://www.shoulderhorn.com. I own one. It works.

I hope your recovery is a speedy one!

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DOPEFLY

Since 13 Oct 2007
97 Posts
Maui
 



PostSun Sep 04, 11 9:41 pm     Reply with quote

Active Release Therapy will break up subsequent scarring of the injured muscle. Scarring is what keeps most tear injuries nagging and painful. Ultrasound and shock-wave techniques are often offered as part of A.R.T. I had 3 sessions on a torn supra-spanatus and after the first session I awoke on the injured side - it was a magical moment. Scar and strength management coupled with low stress, strong diet, and a happy view on life will pay huge dividends. Happy healing!
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1surfer

Since 20 Apr 2010
355 Posts
'Ualapu'e / High Rockies
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PostTue Sep 06, 11 9:45 am    Re: kite shoulder question Reply with quote

wemolly wrote:
I ride a directional toeside a lot. As a result of that (and other things) I've torn my bicep tendon and have a partial tear, about 30%, of my rotator cuff. Regarding the bicep the advice has been pretty consistent, rehab only. But I'm getting conflicting advice about repairing the rotator cuff. Some say do the surgery quickly and some say do rehab and forget surgery.

Has anyone had partial rotator tearing and what did you do about it? One note, I'm 66 and kiting conservatively (because of the shoulder et al). Age and activity are a factor in treatment I'm told.


I have had both of my rotator cuffs rebuilt. Based upon medical studies and factual history, RF cuffs will not heal. Get it fixed.

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kiterbiker

Since 12 Jun 2010
65 Posts

 



PostTue Sep 06, 11 10:23 am     Reply with quote

As someone who works with athletes, I would say hold off on the surgery as a last resort. Get a good physical therapist, try some acupuncture and a good massage therapist can do a a lot to help recover. Get a good LMT who can do treatment based massage, they can help a lot in these sort of situations once the injury is no longer acute. If your actively trying to get it healed, taking care of yourself, and are reasonably healthy you can probably rehab it and recover well, surgery will often leave extra damage. Great option for people who are not active, and probably wont be using the shoulder much anyways, but as someone who lives and active lifestyle and needs arms for steering the kite, I would say look into non surgical ways first, checking out all possible ways of healing, and use surgery as a last resort.

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Boost

Since 09 Mar 2006
30 Posts
Pacific North Wet
 



PostTue Sep 06, 11 10:59 am     Reply with quote

Quote:
I have had both of my rotator cuffs rebuilt. Based upon medical studies and factual history, RF cuffs will not heal. Get it fixed.

I am living proof that you can in fact heal 100% from a serious RC / Bicep tendon tear and I have the before / after MRI's to prove it.

The only factual history here is
Quote:
Surgery will often leave extra damage
.
Time is your friend Wemolly. The more you give this injury they stronger you will heal.

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1surfer

Since 20 Apr 2010
355 Posts
'Ualapu'e / High Rockies
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PostTue Sep 06, 11 11:25 am     Reply with quote

Boost wrote:
Quote:
I have had both of my rotator cuffs rebuilt. Based upon medical studies and factual history, RF cuffs will not heal. Get it fixed.

I am living proof that you can in fact heal 100% from a serious RC / Bicep tendon tear and I have the before / after MRI's to prove it.

The only factual history here is
Quote:
Surgery will often leave extra damage
.
Time is your friend Wemolly. The more you give this injury they stronger you will heal.


I understand that tendons heal, but can you show case study of damaged Rotator cuff's healing ?

Im in the bizz, I design and make my own line of spinal and orthopedic surgical instruments for a living.

Im under the impression the muscles and tendons heal, mechanical damage does not, like a damaged RC. Tendon and muscle damage are separate subjects from damaged RC's.
Perhaps Im wrong ? Always open to new information.

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kitebot

Since 20 Feb 2007
251 Posts

Obsessed



PostTue Sep 06, 11 4:30 pm     Reply with quote

I'm 35 and I jacked my shoulder last summer swell riding on a surfboard. I went to physio through the winter and found things were good, until I stopped going, even though I kept doing the elastic band exercises. I ended up picking up a muscle therapy device similar to the Dr. Ho's you see on the infomercials, it does the same thing as the massive system my physio hooked me up to, and I can use it as long as I want without getting charged $55 a shot. Using this device in combination with my exercises has gone a long way to getting me back to normal, I'm at about 90% now and continuing to improve.

Good luck, I feel your pain!

ab

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Boost

Since 09 Mar 2006
30 Posts
Pacific North Wet
 



PostTue Sep 06, 11 5:39 pm     Reply with quote

1Surfer....

How long after the injury occurred did you wait to have each of your RC's rebuilt?

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1surfer

Since 20 Apr 2010
355 Posts
'Ualapu'e / High Rockies
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PostTue Sep 06, 11 6:15 pm     Reply with quote

Boost wrote:
1Surfer....

How long after the injury occurred did you wait to have each of your RC's rebuilt?


Both shoulder problems were created over a long periods of time. Neither were sudden traumatic injuries. I started windsurfing every in Hawaii day around 1977-1978 when I was 12-13 years old and went for at least 10 years of that. All that prolonged and constant shoulder stress took a toll. I and went for at least 10 years of that constant shoulder abuse, and lots of unhooked freestyle and wave sailing. The first surgery was in 87 and the next in 90. My rotator cuffs had noticeable damage and were actually missing parts of the medial posterior corner. It got to the point where i would sneeze or shake hands with someone and the shoulder would just fall out.

The rebuilds were great. Strong now but not much external rotation.

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Ozone Reo's. C&k Beach Boy Service, Windsurfing Waikiki, Hawaiian Windriders, NSRN.

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consumer

Since 28 Nov 2010
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PostTue Sep 06, 11 7:13 pm     Reply with quote

I've done some research and as usual, this is a much more complex issue that precludes an online forum diagnosis.

From what i've read, not only does age come into play, but also the specific type of partial thickness tear you have. Essentially, an individual can develop a degenerating rotator cuff injury, given the proper circumstances. In other cases, non-operative treatment can be successful as well.

I think McConville et al. put it best ...

"The approach to management of a partial-thickness rotator cuff tear is best made with the understanding that this is not a singular condition. Rather, partial tears represent the common outcome of a variety of insults to the rotator cuff. Degenerative changes due to aging, anatomic impingement, and trauma may all be etiologic agents. A nonoperative treatment program for rotator cuff strengthening and stretching is appropriate as initial treatment; modification of activities and anti-inflammatory medication are often used as well. Operative management may be considered when nonoperative treatment fails."

From:

McConville OR, Ianotti JP. Partial-thickness tears of the rotator cuff: evaluation and management. J Am Acad Orthop Surg 1999;7:32-43. (frequently cited).

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1surfer

Since 20 Apr 2010
355 Posts
'Ualapu'e / High Rockies
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PostTue Sep 06, 11 7:15 pm    Agreed Reply with quote

consumer wrote:
I've done some research and as usual, this is a much more complex issue that precludes an online forum diagnosis.

From what i've read, not only does age come into play, but also the specific type of partial thickness tear you have. Essentially, an individual can develop a degenerating rotator cuff injury, given the proper circumstances. In other cases, non-operative treatment can be successful as well.

I think McConville et al. put it best ...

"The approach to management of a partial-thickness rotator cuff tear is best made with the understanding that this is not a singular condition. Rather, partial tears represent the common outcome of a variety of insults to the rotator cuff. Degenerative changes due to aging, anatomic impingement, and trauma may all be etiologic agents. A nonoperative treatment program for rotator cuff strengthening and stretching is appropriate as initial treatment; modification of activities and anti-inflammatory medication are often used as well. Operative management may be considered when nonoperative treatment fails."

From:

McConville OR, Ianotti JP. Partial-thickness tears of the rotator cuff: evaluation and management. J Am Acad Orthop Surg 1999;7:32-43. (frequently cited).


Yep !

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