These are the facts...you decide.

melokitegirl · Since 28 Oct 2008 396 Posts Where the wind blows Obsessed

This is going to be one of those posts that has every chance of being lost in “he said, she said…”.
That’s why I titled in “…the facts…”.
This isn’t a spun opinion, it’s a true story.

It’s a short story, but an ugly one; the kind we don’t like to hear about. It happened Sunday on the Sandbar.
I don’t want to taint it with any judgments or put down any one person (which is why no names), I just want to tell the truth (hence the subject line…the facts…).
Hopefully it doesn’t happen again (hopefully).

Fact #1: It was Sunday on the sandbar and it was crowded. As it can be and usually is on a windy summer day.

Fact #2: I was there with 2 of my family members who don’t kite. However, I did explain the protocol, staying upwind of the kiters, being aware of their surroundings, staying out of the way,…

Fact #3: The incident occurred on the very south end of the Sandbar (slightly east). Directly upwind of what is now 4-8” of water. In other words, it isn’t kiteable there. We should not have been in anyone’s way who was on the sandbar to kite.

Fact #4: Myself and my two non-kiter family members where sitting there and watching other family member being given a lesson by a real instructor (downwind of us).

Fact #5: A local kiter, very experienced, was trying to help someone with a small LEI kite get it launched. For whatever reason, they relocated and eventually were directly upwind of us (behind us…and we were on the very south end of the sandbar).

Fact #6: We found this out as the pilot (the very experienced local kiter) began slamming the kite (over and over) into the sand right next to us. I asked him to stop so we could move (because apparently he wouldn’t), but he didn’t. He said that there was something “wrong” with the kite”. And chopped us again. WTF?

Fact #7: While we were moving, (because apparently he didn’t think he should) he didn’t stop, instead continued to try to re-launch (probably approaching the 6th or 8th time) and this time the kite lines swept the sand and lifted my family member’s camera from the sand and into the water (there goes $400).

Fact #8: My family member (who was now really pissed off about this) had words with the local experienced kiter, who not surprisingly, said that the sandbar was a “teaching beach” and that my family member probably threw his own camera into the water, therefore it wasn’t his (the local experienced kiter’s) fault. Now there’s a clever comment.

So, what can we learn from all of this?

Conclusion #1: if you’re a kiter (and you probably are if you’re reading this), you might say, “well…civilians have no reason to be on the sandbar in the first place.” If so, point made. Here’s what I say: that works if we were anywhere besides the very south end of the sandbar upwind of water that wasn’t kiteable anyway. We were watching a level 1 lesson with a complete beginner who wouldn’t be getting on a board.

Conclusion #2: if you can’t trust local, experienced kiters NOT to TOMAHAWK THEIR KITE OVER AND OVER WHILE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO GET OUT THE WAY BECAUSE THEY ARE DIRECTLY UPWIND, who can you trust to be safe out there? The term “WTF” applies here. As do other terms, like Darwin.

Conclusion #3: If you’re not a “kook”, then use some common sense. Own your own mistake when you make one…telling someone he probably threw his own phone in the water…really?

Ridiculous.

Mark · Mon Aug 08, 11 9:47 am

Your right on two things:
"Civilians have no reason to be on the sandbar"
"Don't trust anyone flying a kite"

blowhard · Since 26 Dec 2005 2027 Posts Windward

arf arf

Inept_Fun · Since 14 Apr 2005 1417 Posts Hood River XTreme Poster

If your not a "kook" don't take your family with no kite experience out onto the sandbar. 4-8 inches of water is plenty enough to kite in. The marina would have been a better place to take the family. Being a kiter Im sure you also know how issues with gear can happen, and yes even experienced kiters have something happen with gear every once in a while, especially when it is the schools gear that they are dealing with.

Sorry about your camera but why would you leave it on the beach anyways? Or even remotely close to anybody's kite or lesson taking place?

Jonpnw · Mon Aug 08, 11 9:52 am

we decided

pappas · Since 10 Jun 2007 58 Posts

I won't be quite as harsh as Ian or Mark, as the instuctor should have not put you in that position.

I agree that in theory the instructor is in the wrong... but, come on... if someone is crashing a kite over and over upwind of you, don't you think the wise decision would have been to move out of the "half circle of death". Instead you choose to confront and stay? Not quite sure I understand that logic.

Sucks about the camera, but why was it unattended... even after you noticed the "situation" you were in?

I would say you kooked out just as much as the other party...

SalmonSlayer · Since 27 Nov 2005 648 Posts Addicted **CGKA Member**

Maybe if you kept the non-kiters on a leash this would not have happened.

melokitegirl · Since 28 Oct 2008 396 Posts Where the wind blows Obsessed

My uncle went there on his own. I went over there to take a few pictures then get him, the stuff & leave. We were well away from people & other schools. The fellow (who I like by the way) could have just stepped back a few feet to allow us to get our things. He is well capable of it and it looked like passive aggression to me. Maybe he is just a space case. Not sure. No need to keep chopping the kite at us. In hind site...I should have just stepped on his lines to immobilize the kite (2 M) until my uncle could get his stuff. Apparently I need to be a jerk...

As much as I support the schools & kiting. Kite schools & kiters don't own the sandbar. Public has the right to be there also. Obviously not recommended. Three people visited me here & shelled out hundreds of dollars at restaurants, kite/bike shops and paid for lessons. Is it too much to ask for a little courtesy? Even when you explain the kite thing/safety etc. people want to watch, take pictures. It's a big deal to come here for some people & take a lesson. I think we could be better ambassadors.

Just kinda sucks that a place I love so much has left a bit of taint on my family.

registered · Since 12 Jul 2005 1319 Posts tsunami Sandbagger

We should probably ban kiting at the sandbar so that family members can have a safe place to be without issues.

hmmm isn't there a park closeby...with grass

At least you weren't the one crashing near them and flinging their gear around.

tstansbury · Since 06 Jun 2006 649 Posts Rowena and P.C Addicted

not haveing control of a kite is totally unexceptubal no matter what. If the kitter did not pay for the cammera you should have called the cops. This is the kind of behavior that gets places closed down. And if he did have control of the kite then this is even worse.

Jonpnw · Mon Aug 08, 11 10:45 am

melokitegirl · Since 28 Oct 2008 396 Posts Where the wind blows Obsessed

You are really are not getting this... My family member was in a kite lesson with a PASA/IKO instructor from a licensed school. Another family member was taking pictures unbenounced to me. I saw him from the event site- then I went to retrieve him & the stuff. I did stand there for a few minutes watching as well - but we were on our way out & we were not in anyones way.

The few inches of water was an individual puddle - not connected to anything. I suppose you could have hucked air, landed in it then jumped right out if you must. It was a great location for a 2nd lesson with a small kite (4M).

Just for the record. It's not the easiest thing for a gal to command the situation with two male hot heads & a chopping kite. Think anyone's gonna listen to me? Not.

forrest · Mon Aug 08, 11 10:50 am

Melissa, You should first complain to school who employs the instructor. It's likely that the school has not properly informed the instructor of the issue of public right of way on the public owned portions of the Hood River Sandbar. I am sure the school in question would take this very, very seriously.

If that doesn't work the Port of Hood River would be next. The Port takes this issue very serious, and does a good job of communicating with the schools when there has been a complaint.

melokitegirl · Since 28 Oct 2008 396 Posts Where the wind blows Obsessed

Thanks Forrest: He is a rogue instructor. That's what I've been told anyway. I would never in a million years give out his name. I'm too "Philly" for that. Never rat. Ever.

This is one of the reasons I typically kite elsewhere. But it was family weekend. I posted because it did happened to me & could happen to anyone. Just thought the scenerio was typical & we/I could all learn something.

I'm a forgiver, will take responsibilty where I messed up & try to see all sides.

D-Krep It Kiter · Since 18 Jul 2011 417 Posts Obsessed

I just wanted to post a clarification because a bit of what you're describing sounds like us (my wife & I are learning to kite). We have a small (Ocean Rodeo Rise 2m) four-line LEI kite and often go to the sandbar to fly. As a matter of fact, I think we saw you & your family Sunday if you were the people with chairs right by the kiddie pool.

Anyways, my wife & usually have black helmets on, full wetsuits, both wear sunglasses, and our kite is mostly blue with some back & white. We are always very careful when we fly the kite, and didn't interfere with anyone. We always choose a spot well away from everyone when we fly. Please don't anyone reading this thread think we're involved in any way if you see us out there flying our kite. I think the guy you're describing might have actually talked to us just that day, as some guy approached us (I didn't get a good look, as he was a bit behind me while I was flying the kite) and asked about the kite saying he had the same one, and that he was going to try and fly it with a "regular" line & bar system rather that the one it came with. I'm pretty sure we left before they started flying. You guys were still there.

The sandbar is a busy spot, and easily gets congested. Being new to kiting, its often difficult to be in control 100% of the time... even experts make mistakes, and drop their kites occasionally. The thing I've noticed is that we'll pick a clear space well away from everyone, and as we're flying people will just move right into our area and start flying trainers too, or better yet start spectating right underneath our lines. During my wife's land lesson, I watched as a kiter who was kooking out with a full size kite walked about 100 yards over so that he could start kiting just to the side and below where my wife and instructor were. She lost control of the kite, released, and the kite landed on them, but no one was injured at all (as a side note, 5 mins later the dude finally got bold enough to put his 9m deep into the wind window and nearly killed himself as he went flying down the sandbar).

In my opinion, if you are learning, and you set up in a busy area with people close by, you need to be sure that you're going to be in control of the kite the whole time. If you're a beginner, and you choose a spot well away from the crowds, set-up, start flying, and then someone comes over and sits below your kite, its really not going to be your fault if you crash the kite on them. You can't keep relocating every time someone decides they want your spot more than you do. This is being debated in the i-Windsurf forum right now, where the windsurfers are claiming that they can sail right underneath the lines of any kiter, even a beginner who is clearly taking a lesson and only partially in control, and that if the kite hits them, its the kiters fault. Again, if the kiter launches where people are already windsurfing, then they are responsible for their kite control. If they think there may be problems, then they shouldn't kite there. However, if they take a lesson on the Oregon side like I did, there is an instructor present, and are well away from the windsurfing area, its hardly fair for the windsurfers to come over and start buzzing us like they did, and then cry foul on their forum saying "the kiter was out of control and shouldn't have been there".

So far its been great on the Sandbar, even though its a busy place, we usually find a clear area to fly. I also try to go out with my big kite only when its not busy, as I don't want to be crashing my kite on people who are trying to get in a session. The sandbar is a full on mix of experts, beginners & civilians. Hopefully with a little consideration we can all make it work, but also, I do agree with Inept in that the sandbar is a kite area, kiting is happening there... if you go to watch, I really think you're doing it at your own risk. If you setup to spectate close to the action, you just might become an unwilling participant.

pdxmonkeyboy · Mon Aug 08, 11 11:18 am

A helmets made out of razor wire for all non-kiters may be the answer.

dantmurphy · Since 15 Dec 2010 39 Posts

Sunday was a busy day...I may have seen that incident, or it may have been at least 5 others that I'm thinking of. In the 5 mins it took me to get off the sandbar after my session I saw at least 3 hot launches with lines skimming heads, and at least one death loop scenario! My advice to get off the sandbar...DUCK AND RUN!

I mentioned to one guy that sent 2 hot kites up, that I think it's your responsibility to make a reasonable effort to ensure the kite is ready for the launch..ie not hot....what do others think about this?