Why down-wind dragging?

tonyb · Thu Aug 04, 11 10:16 am **Why down-wind dragging?**

We kited in to Hood River from Stevie this past weekend and got to experience some of the mayhem first hand. Kooks, newbs, hot shots, cruisers, slashers and splashers.

And it seemed like lessons everywhere. And quite a few doing down-wind body dragging sessions.

What the hell is up with this?! Why is down-wind body dragging being taught at all? The skill that needs to be taught is to body drag upwind or cross-wind, not how to tea bag straight down wind. I don't care if it's "fun" for the student it's stupid to be teaching this.

I saw at least three different instructors giving lessons where they were following a student who is sending the kite all over the place getting yarded along the water. I didn't see any body dragging lessons where the student was holding the kite in one position and learning how to go upwind or steer around people or change directions.

Learn to park the kite in one spot. Then how to drag upwind or crosswind without a board. Then how to do the same thing with a board. Then learn how to put the board on and stand up.

Friends don't let friends get tea bagged! (Unless you're in to that sort of thing.)

Tony

mxwllms · Since 26 Jul 2006 110 Posts Boring, Or Stoked

we all know you like some nuts on the face.... that being said i have no sure answer to your shitty question. I would guess its to get the student used to the kite while its under power and they are in the water... and at the end of the day they can teach how they want to... so dont go around telling people how to do their jobs... after all they dont go down to the mcdonalds and tell you how to do yours.

OG · Since 07 Jun 2011 597 Posts Addicted

bambam · Since 15 Mar 2005 760 Posts Hood River Photographer

Are you kidding Tony??? Body dragging downwind/or across wind is the best way to learn how to fly the kite and learn how to generate power/different types of power stokes... before adding the board...

Adding the board too early is like having your student pat their heads, rub the belly, and hold a conversation all at the same time. Down wind body dragging is not about the upwind drag... it is all about controlling the kite and learning how to generate power and deal with the ramifications of losing control of it.

Ideally your student should not be getting yarded and lose control/crash the kite. But a good directionaly controlled speed snorkle with the kite in control is an indication to me that they are confident with dipping into some power and ready to add that pesky board. Obviously the one handed body drag also needs to be taught and developed before board introduction as well.

Reaper356 · Since 10 Dec 2006 781 Posts Salem / LC Oregon Opinionated

I remember doing a 100 ft downwind bodydrag when I was learning. I'd flown a trainer, I'd just practiced flying an actual kitesurf kite and the instructor wanted me to practice sinning the kite up and down just to get a feel for how it developed power.
I accidently sent it and got hucked onto land, but it was still amazing - and it brought me back for more!

dangler · Since 26 Feb 2006 1780 Posts WINDY SPOTS XTreme Poster

Sella · Thu Aug 04, 11 12:23 pm

dancingwind · Since 18 Jul 2007 321 Posts Obsessed

Swizz · Since 25 Jul 2011 11 Posts Salem

A couple thoughts from a noob.

A month ago I would have been one of those people doing downwind body drags in the gorge. It was one of the first things I did in my lesson and pretty brief, but it taught me something very important - respect the power of the kite! I was a little over-zealous in my first ever power stroke with a full size kite, and you can guess what happened from there. I needed that experience to know where too far is in those conditions.

But to answer your question, it's taught because it's a foundational skill. It gives new students a chance to get the feel of moving through the water by kite power without any more task-loading than necessary. Give anyone too many balls to juggle at once and they will fail. Although down-wind body dragging seems simple to someone who already knows what it's all about, it's not that simple to someone who has never done it. Keep that in perspective and steer clear of the noobs and everything will be golden!

tonyb · Thu Aug 04, 11 1:40 pm

I'm not bashing body dragging as it is an extremely important skill and has to be learned so that you can take care of yourself and get back to where you started.

But I see too many people that go from down wind tea bagging to trying to get up on the board and they've never learned how to park the kite in one spot and actually get somewhere. Learning the power of the kite is important but learning control first is better. Does it really help a student to learn how to go skimming across the water on his belly for 5 seconds and then crash the kite in to the water?

I've got a similar beef with how people are taught to fly trainer kites. 5 minutes of how the wind window works and 25 minutes of figure eights and multiple loops. What needs to be taught is how to park the kite at 11 or 1, one handed, without looking at it, and hold it there for 5 minutes without moving more than a couple of feet up or down. The put your board on your feet one handed. Then roll over and get in body drag position one handed, etc...

I was taught the old down wind body dragging way and I think it prolonged the learning process and it took me a whole lot longer to get comfortable losing my board and getting back up wind to it. Seems like the techniques should have progressed a bit more in the last 8 years.

Tony

chrissmack · Since 08 Jun 2005 526 Posts portland Addicted

probably still a good way to teach powering the kite...

but probably leftovers from the old days of teaching. the c kites had little depower, so most people had their first couple of sessions on kites one size to small, so they wouldn't get destroyed by gusts or if the wind came up a bit. therefore, they were taught to sine the kite as the way to get up and be planing on their board.

now most people learn on bridle kites, and can be on the right sized kite without sining the kite to get up, so probably not quite as important as it used to be.

i've seen people (not licensed instructors) teaching friends to power the kite by sitting on the ground with legs out in front, diving the kite a bit, and have the kite pull them up to a standing position. seems more useful, but a bit more dangerous being on land.

bambam · Since 15 Mar 2005 760 Posts Hood River Photographer

Techniques have changed... Maybe a definition of terms needs to be redefined... I consider any form of body dragging with both hands on the bar, no matter where the kite is or how it is being flown to be "downwind" body dragging. I agree that it of utmost importance that this is done in a controlled manner and that kite control is the paramount goal. But, applying and controlling the power of the kite has to be taught... and taught everywhere in the wind window... Also, flying with one hand and controlling the kite is something that I consider a down wind dragging skill. Body dragging changes to an upwind slant when the kite is controlled to one side and the free hand is digging deep for resistance. Having to know how to do this as well is absolutely required before board introduction.

Personally I believe that people need much MORE dragging around (albeit in a controlled and directed manner) before being give a board to complicate the process. There is a reason that the good schools take clients up above Wells and into the channel... Lots of room to drag around...

ldhr · Since 21 Jul 2009 1489 Posts Hood River XTreme Poster

learning to park the kite and drag cross or upwind is great skill to have.
but it won't teach you how to do a power dive for waterstarting.
diving your kite in a controlled manner and going downwind is a good way to learn the kite handling skills necessary for waterstarting.

tonyb · Thu Aug 04, 11 2:23 pm

Good points on the definitions bambam. I'm calling down wind body dragging the zooming along on the belly, kite looping spray flying tea bagging activity. If it's controlled and has a real purpose then I'm for it.

My prejudice comes a bit from learning at Stevie where there is only one in and out spot unless you go all the way to the cemetery. Best to learn how to drag your butt back to where you started before you touch a board.

Tony

BeerKite · Since 29 Mar 2011 471 Posts Obsessed

Tony is totally right! I teach two days a week in the Gorge and two more days out at Jones. I almost never teach students downwind body dragging. We start with one handed flying so that the student can walk with the kite one handed, pick up and walk with their board,do an upwind body drag with and without board, put the board on our feet, and then we start doing power strokes. If you don't teach someone how to control the kite properly, there is no reason they should be doing power strokes. Most people have no problem going downwind, so why teach that? Uh oh. I just gave away my teaching method. Damn it! I'm not bashing anyone else who teaches the DW body drag either, it's just an out of date method that a lot of us learned in the old days. Anyway, I'll get off of my soap box and throw my two cents in.

Diego · Since 19 Sep 2009 8 Posts Los Barriles Kook

Ok granted there are many styles of teaching...
But most schools don't teach upwind bodydragging until later. Its discussed, of course, but the focus for this second or third lesson is kite control and relaunch. When a beginner gets TOO much kite control, they never crash and never learn to relaunch or self rescue for that matter. So, we encourage them to "feel the power" and flail a bit. If there are other folks in the danger zone, though, students are told to bring the kite to 10 or 2 and keep it there until its clear
yes some nubes get a bloodlust for the power or the teabag. they dont know how dangerous they are...

D-Krep It Kiter · Since 18 Jul 2011 417 Posts Obsessed

The only time we did downwind body dragging in my water lesson was when my instructor (AJ with Gorge Gradients, awesome guy!) recognized I was afraid to commit to putting the kite deep enough in the wind-window to get going on my board. He had me do a body-drag to one side, working the kite, just to get the feel of it. It worked. I went back to the board and got up and got going.

We did do upwind body dragging, but any tea-bagging was certainly not instructor approved!