Should I self launch or get an assist?

taycar · Since 11 Jan 2010 111 Posts HR Stoked

When I took lessons I was taught thumb pointing up for launch and pat on top of the head for help with landing. Is this not universal? Also, with the launch you don't "throw" the kite up as it's been alluded to but to let the person with the bar bring the kite up once they are in the correct position to the wind window.

Oh yeah, please don't kite near me if you are blind... Smile

Bettyboarder · Thu Apr 14, 11 2:21 pm

K2 dont worry too much lesson learned. I had it happen a few years ago it's scary, expensive and frustrating.

Now I only let people I know launch and land me or if no one I know is around I watch to see who seems like they know what their doing first.

Take your time setting up your gear nothing worse than someone asking you for a launch and their shits all tangled up and twisted....you end up sitting there holding there kite for 5 minutes while they figure it out.

mschulz · Since 29 May 2007 530 Posts Reno, NV Addicted

Scribble · Since 18 Nov 2005 636 Posts NoPo Addicted

I always remind the person that is launching me to wait for the thumbs up, and that I will be checking my lines before I give them the thumbs up.

Be careful landing those kites too. I landed someone two years ago at the spit and his kite bounced out of my hands as I was putting it down. His leading edge had much less air in it that I was used to so it was floppy. It caught me off guard and scared the shit out of both of us. I have no idea who it was, but I'm sure I will forever be a kook in his eyes for good reason.

Andy

its_kite:30 · Since 29 May 2009 108 Posts White Salmon/ Beaverton Stoked

I think the problem is being respectful and complacent. We don't want to offend a fellow kiter by asking do you really know what you are doing? And the opposite some people make launching a cool head nod when ready, so If there is movement from a hand it may be assumed to be all systems go.
I approach people and let them know I have been at this for only 3 seasons (4 if I can get out already!) and set the kite up for them to hold and say please don't let go till I do this. May get some eye rolling but whats worse a scar on the kite or someones bruised ego?

bulae99 · Since 12 Jul 2006 1691 Posts I give out bad advice.

I've had some really bad launches, but the worst thing is not having a plan for when it happens.

Here's my opinion of a bad outcome from an assisted launch. It really doesn't matter who's fault it is, so know what to do.

Most bad launches end up with a kite going backward in the wind, or down wind. People tend to correct by attempting to steer the kite up too quickly resulting in a stall. Or the kite goes down on it's leading edge and just parks.

EITHER WAY THE KITE IS ON THE GROUND AND IT'S HOT AND WANTS TO GO SOMEWHERE AND YOU ARE CONNECTED.

So, my first reaction is to anticipate the kite rolling from trailing edge over leading edge and then I just steer it up and spin my bar. THIS IS BECAUSE I'VE DONE SEVERAL TIMES. MOST BEG/NEWBS ARE NOT AWARE OF THE KITE DOING THIS.

Another thing that I've learned, from Jim Bison, was if the kite stalls run up wind. But, you may not always be able to do this. This is necessary when you're at the old kite spit and water is low, and you are in the shadow behind that little bar.

So, you have a bad launch.

**You can always activate your safety, but you better be aware of what's down wind.

***Another thing to do is really wait and see if someone is ready.
***If I see somebody who's not ready to launch and or two guys launching that are newbs I watch. I watch and I stay up wind and I pray.

melokitegirl · Since 28 Oct 2008 396 Posts Where the wind blows Obsessed

Pretty interesting information. From what I understand the pilot is responsible...period. I have gotten into the habit of checking my lines at least twice. I'm dislexic - so I second guess myself all the time (it would be great if the kite companys would do a universal color code for attaching lines). I have found that other kiters are annoyed with me because I take up time & real estate. I don't care though. Screw those attitudes. Those people are not going to pay my mortgage payment if I get hurt. I don't like the thumbs up unless your hand is over your head. It's more pronounced. Do it like you mean it.

OK - so I have no ego. You can poke fun at me & call me a kook or whatever...But I have to say that I have gotten my ass kicked sooooo many times launching other people. I'm not new at this either. I've been told to "just walk up wind" until the pilot figures it out. Well, I'm 5.4 and walking upwind with a "14" as its doubling over on top of me isn't all the easy. Also - because it is so windy - you can't hear a thing. I try to give hand signals to the pilot to let them know that they need to walk this way or that. Never seems to work. OR they hook in and are a bit slack and when you let the kite go - it knocks me on my ass or just flattens me out - BOOM. There have been a couple of times (in the place we don't talk about) where I didn't think I would be able to get up from that. But so thankful when I could actually move my neck (Thanks alot sparkle green helmet guy - who I will never launch again). When you kite where there is not a lot of people - you rely on anyone you can get. So now, I go over everything with the pilot before I help launch. Sometimes the communication just isn't there. Men are fom Mars - women are from Venus? Maybe it's just me. For awhile I've adopted the "I'll land you all day - but I will not launch anyone". Trying to get over that. But fear tends to seize me.

In any regard. I'm taking a trip to Hatteras soon and a lot of my focus is going to be self-launch & self land. Self Rescue in all kinds of conditions. None of these things are ever the same. Different winds, dunes, rocks, wind shadows etc can change the game. After being pummeled again & again - I've realized that I better be a self-sufficient kiter. This is not golf. You are on your own & if your "launcher" screws up, you better be able to deal with it.

DaveC · Since 07 Mar 2011 10 Posts East Coast Canada

A similar situation happened to a buddy of mine (as to KP)

A launcher had the kite in his hand, and my buddy was pointing for him to walk upwind (as the kiter didn't have room to manouver but the launcher did). He hot launched in 25 knots and my buddy got dragged the f** down the beach.

Obviously pointing and thumbs up look EXACTLY THE SAME.

I have a third "universal sign": KILL IT. I slice my neck with my hand, and that NEVER gets mis-read.

Thats what you should do bro's. Don't blame the launcher that you rigged wrong then pointed with your finger instead of your thumb!

Nak · Fri Apr 15, 11 9:31 am

Too many guys give a small thumbs up right in front of their face. Very difficult to see and leads to mistakes. Having used hand signals extensively in both formation flight and aviation ground operations for over 30 years, I know the only way to guarantee no mistakes is to brief a BIG thumbs up using the entire arm off to the side. The natural tendency is to point the arm at the launcher to give a thumbs up. This makes it very difficult to see the gesture, and reaching up to pat your head could be misinterpreted to be a thumbs up. (The kite may be released prior to getting your hand above your head.)

Brief the hand signals you're going to use before you launch. The launcher should be checking the lines and general condition of the kite, but the rider should not count on that.

Trying to place ANY kind of liability on the launcher is a slippery slope we DON'T want to get on. How long would it take before nobody would launch or land you, if they thought they might be required to pay a penalty? Start that precedent and that's the end of assisted launchs and landings. That, then, would be the start of a lot of beach closures. Suck it up. It's part of the risk involved in kiteboarding. Short of intentional interference, the rider/pilot is SOLELY responsible for any damages or injuries to themselves, their kite, the surroundings and third parties. PERIOD.

Nak · Since 19 May 2005 4302 Posts Camas Site Lackey **CGKA Member**

Ron, I think this is a great thread and you make some great points. However, I'd modify this next part a bit:

tonyb · Fri Apr 15, 11 3:08 pm

And then there's Stevie.... Shocked

where even the best of launchers and kiters can put a kite where it shouldn't be. An experienced launcher in Stevenson is preferred to one who rarely kites there and good communication is a must. It's one of the few places where the launcher is expected to be in control of letting the kite go rather than the kiter flying the kite out of their hands. The usual instruction at Stevie after the thumbs up is "when you feel it...".

Like Nak says, go over the signals and be very deliberate when you use them.

Tony

Nak · Fri Apr 15, 11 3:24 pm

It's funny. All the problems that tree causes, and nobody who kites Stevie wants to cut it down. ( Including me...) It's part of what makes Stevenson what it is. Very Happy

tonyb · Fri Apr 15, 11 3:56 pm

I like the tree as well. Karl (Port Facilities Mgr) has done some selective pruning on it over the years to keep it under control. If anyone gets uptight about the tree see me or find Karl to talk about it. No midnight "improvements" please!

Tony

Gman · Since 11 Feb 2006 4911 Posts Portland Unstrapped

holly · Since 09 Jul 2006 440 Posts Hood River Obsessed

dude everyone should know how to self launch.. its not hard and its just as safe if not safer then a assisted launch. If the kite is all f-ed up let go of the bar.. no brainier! all you have to do is rig your kite and just make sure your lines are down wind. walk to the edge of the window pull one of your outside lines to allow the wind to fill it and it will move down wind a little and fill up with air, you should have your bar all the way sheeted out while doing this. Your kite will flip up on one side and move to the edge of the window, its the same as a water relaunch. if your kite gets stuck in mud or something, you need to physically move down wind so its at the edge of the window.. pretty simple..

Huge pet peeve of mine is the saying "whenever you feel it" umm dumbass your the one connected to the kite and you have the bar im just the person holding on to the kite so you can find the sweet spot...you should feel it!

farnorthstar · Since 16 Jun 2009 20 Posts Portland

I think its cool you asked for advice on this. However, I am a little amazed you dont know the answer. Its quite clear to most of us that you are ultimately responsible. The same goes for the boss is ultimately responsible for their employees. The president is responsible for the actions of his cabinet.

But it brings up an important point. How do we make sure people who are launching us are capable? I randomly ask folks all the time and havent really thought about it as long as they were dressed in kite gear. But its an awesome responsibility since launching and landing are where the accidents happen.

And I say this knowing that at least on one occasion, I owe my kite gear and possibly my life to a random kiter who swam out to save my ass when I had gear failure. My experience has been....wow... thank god for some of the great kiters out there.

Kiting is definitely different than other sports. We rely on each other much more than other sports.

Aeolus · Mon Apr 18, 11 11:03 pm

Lonely coast riders have to schlog through all the launches.....never know what the Pac Northwest beaches will throw at you...best to have a good selection in your quiver.......

the rootwad launch
the bury-the-log deadman launch
the kite-bag full of rocks launch
the hot launch
the hot-blonde launch (very elusive)
the truck hitch launch
the drift launch (.."how did that floating stick get in my lines")
the margarita mix bucket launch
the swanky north coast tug and pivot launch (just visited..got flat,smooth beach envy now)
(never) the happy-helpful-tourist break-your-face assisted launch
the rotten fence post launch
the derelict crab pot launch
on and on and on......

beware the gusty-tumble-into-window fixed anchor launch....oh it will happen Shocked