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scottman
Since 08 Jun 2007
150 Posts
hillsboro
Stoked
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 Sun Aug 22, 10 6:35 pm T3 inversion |
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Back in July had a really windy day and had to bust out my 5m T3. Never flown this thing before. Really slow turning, but got used to it and kinda like how it smooths out some gusty conditions. Anyway I was riding downwind from the WS bridge and wiped out on a down loop turn. I turned too early lines went slack and kite crashed and then rolled over and inverted on me. I think I read on here some guys just fly it inverted? I was not getting a warm and fuzzy on doing this because I could not get a good visual on my bridal for tangles etc. What I did is swim toward the kite and get it to roll over again. It then sat their on its leading edge facing the wind. I had to wait a while to get a wind gust under the leading edge power it up and hot launch. The T3 leading edge at the center tends to rise up out of the water unlike my waroo's.
Does anyone have a good procedure/experience for dealing with an inverted T3?
Thanks
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Chooch
Since 18 Nov 2007
1871 Posts
Wicked Pissah
Boston Tea Bagger
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| Sun Aug 22, 10 6:41 pm |
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There is an easy and SAFE way to fix this. If your kite inverts simply flag you kite out. Once the kite is flagged retrieve your bar and feed you flagging line back out, the kite should be back to normal and ready for relaunch.
On a side note if your kite is sitting leading edge down and facing you simply pull a lot of outside line, your kite will eventually catch some wind (takes a few seconds so be patient) and be back in the normal relaunch position...a lot safer than the hot launch option.
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L1ft
Since 26 Jul 2011
22 Posts
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| Sat Sep 10, 11 12:23 pm |
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Thought I'd bump this rather than start a new thread, as I was the "Sauvie Entertainment" yesterday for everybody at the beach.
I had my kite invert "Frontwards" (like a front-flip towards me) if that makes sense and if that poses more problems than "backwards" .
Question: does this prescribed method below work in both instances?
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Campbell
Since 07 Sep 2008
409 Posts
Camas, WA
Obsessed
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| Sat Sep 10, 11 2:17 pm |
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| What do you mean by feed your flagging line back out? Just grab your bar once flagged or is there more to it?
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dangler
Since 26 Feb 2006
1780 Posts
WINDY SPOTS
XTreme Poster
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| Sat Sep 10, 11 3:30 pm inversion |
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I think what you are describing is the kite rolling over thru the lines, which can happen from slack lines, or hindenburging. your kite will still fly fine in most cases, and the fix there atSauvies would be land your kite and pass the bar thru the v of your center lines.
An inverted kite refers to the freakisk kite relaunching inside out. Still flies, but follow Chooch's advise on this one, flag it out and it will sort itself.
Recently repaired a leading edge blowout from an inverted kite.
It wasn't pretty. ( and long swim due to downwinder.)
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Kite Repair? AND WINGS Call me.(509) six 37-four five 29 |
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toddjb
Since 16 Oct 2007
271 Posts
MD
Obsessed
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| Mon Sep 12, 11 10:31 am |
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I had my 10M Rally invert on me a couple weeks ago due to a slack line wreck in gusty conditions...kite rolled and then wind hit it mid-roll and popped it inside-out! I tried to pull on an outside line, but wasn't having much success so I released it to safety (flagged it out), retrieved the bar, let the leash line feed back out carefully and yup, came back up in one piece!
Thankfully SS has an easy safety system to reset on the water. I remember the days when a safety release was a mandatory swim to the beach...
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1surfer
Since 20 Apr 2010
355 Posts
'Ualapu'e / High Rockies
Obsessed
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| Mon Sep 12, 11 1:44 pm T3 |
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Those kites have chronic inversion problems. Its totally unsafe as it could happen in a bad spot. Sell them while you can. The still buy those on E Bay.
_________________
Ozone Reo's. C&k Beach Boy Service, Windsurfing Waikiki, Hawaiian Windriders, NSRN. |
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kitezilla
Since 22 Jun 2006
453 Posts
gorge
Obsessed
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| Mon Sep 12, 11 2:35 pm Re: T3 |
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| 1surfer wrote: | | Those kites have chronic inversion problems. Its totally unsafe as it could happen in a bad spot. Sell them while you can. The still buy those on E Bay. |
Wait a minute...wasn't the T1 the only scary one? That first attempt at making a bow kite was a failure and the kite did some weird stuff.
It seems like it was the T2 that needed a red line correction, or something like that... and then, wasn't it the T3 that was a great kite for teaching? It seemed like it relaunched with just a pull on the rear line.
I may not be remembering correctly, and please correct me, if I have it wrong... but it seemed that the T3 was a nice bow kite.
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1surfer
Since 20 Apr 2010
355 Posts
'Ualapu'e / High Rockies
Obsessed
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| Mon Sep 12, 11 4:46 pm Re: T3 |
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| kitezilla wrote: | | 1surfer wrote: | | Those kites have chronic inversion problems. Its totally unsafe as it could happen in a bad spot. Sell them while you can. The still buy those on E Bay. |
Wait a minute...wasn't the T1 the only scary one? That first attempt at making a bow kite was a failure and the kite did some weird stuff.
It seems like it was the T2 that needed a red line correction, or something like that... and then, wasn't it the T3 that was a great kite for teaching? It seemed like it relaunched with just a pull on the rear line.
I may not be remembering correctly, and please correct me, if I have it wrong... but it seemed that the T3 was a nice bow kite. |
Maybe its because im too heavy and used to sail them too overpowered. I can pull the t2 and t3's inside out all day long. It could be the way I sail. I will say it may be me and not the kites but I will also say that no other kite has ever turned inside out on me.
If I sail either one of those kites it will end up inside out.
But yah, that do water start pretty good. Maybe the best ...
_________________
Ozone Reo's. C&k Beach Boy Service, Windsurfing Waikiki, Hawaiian Windriders, NSRN. |
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toddjb
Since 16 Oct 2007
271 Posts
MD
Obsessed
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| Tue Sep 13, 11 6:26 am Re: T3 |
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| kitezilla wrote: | | 1surfer wrote: | | Those kites have chronic inversion problems. Its totally unsafe as it could happen in a bad spot. Sell them while you can. The still buy those on E Bay. |
Wait a minute...wasn't the T1 the only scary one? That first attempt at making a bow kite was a failure and the kite did some weird stuff.
It seems like it was the T2 that needed a red line correction, or something like that... and then, wasn't it the T3 that was a great kite for teaching? It seemed like it relaunched with just a pull on the rear line.
I may not be remembering correctly, and please correct me, if I have it wrong... but it seemed that the T3 was a nice bow kite. |
You are correct, the T1 was the scary one. The Link was the one with the bridle correction. The T2 and T3 were pretty solid kites. They never inverted on me and I flew both years. I did used to keep the LE pumped up rock hard, specially on the smaller sizes.
I think any kite can invert and as 1surfer pointed out, it just wasn't the quiver for him. I never saw any chronic problems, though. I just never liked the bar pressure. I still recommend the T3 as a superb beginner kite for people and you can pick it up at a great price since it's a few years old now.
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caps
Since 23 Dec 2010
347 Posts
Obsessed
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| Tue Sep 13, 11 7:26 am |
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The T3 was a sweet beginner kite when it came out- and still is. If you are on a limited budget but still had this dream of chasing wind with a kite, a 9m T3 for $300 could cover you in 75%+ of the times. Combine that with some older $200 board and you'd be in the club for $500! This sport doesn't have to break the bank. Just because some of us may defer saving for our kid's college fund or neglect the house's leaky roof for the latest and greatest gear doesn't mean you have to also. Recycle that older, quality gear and share the stoke.
And on the rare time the T3 inverted on me, it was operator error.
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pdxmonkeyboy
Since 16 May 2006
6081 Posts
forever labled as the
retired kiter & motorhead Unicorn Master
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| Tue Sep 13, 11 10:17 am |
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My REV inverted on me quite a bit as well (the 7 meter). Nothing like riding the face of the wave and look up in horror as the kite "tucks under its lip".
The best way to avoid inverting a kite is to not have super slack rear lines and have the right kite size for the conditions. Over powered high aspect kites like to invert. This keeps more air flowing under the bottom of the kite as was intended. When high aspect kites are flying straight into the wind (think of the kite as being almost flat in the sky (parallel with the ground) you get more wind flying over the top of the kite which creates some weird pressures which can result in the leading edge folding under....inverting.
I'm not 100% sure that this is what causes the problem but based on my understanding of physics, air pressure and the bernoulli principal it sure seems like the correct explanation.
_________________
Bury me standing cause I won't lay down!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVvAw2VFR4Y&feature=PlayList&p=FB7233C37686AC79&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=34 |
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L1ft
Since 26 Jul 2011
22 Posts
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| Tue Sep 13, 11 3:11 pm Re: inversion |
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| dangler wrote: | | I think what you are describing is the kite rolling over thru the lines, which can happen from slack lines, or hindenburging. your kite will still fly fine in most cases, and the fix there atSauvies would be land your kite and pass the bar thru the v of your center lines.) |
Wow. You are right. Thanks.
And I was hiking over the weekend when it occurred to me that I could pass the bar through the V on the center lines and I was dying to get home and post this question to the forums! Thanks!
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kitezilla
Since 22 Jun 2006
453 Posts
gorge
Obsessed
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| Wed Sep 14, 11 11:13 am Re: inversion |
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| L1ft wrote: | | dangler wrote: | | I think what you are describing is the kite rolling over thru the lines, which can happen from slack lines, or hindenburging. your kite will still fly fine in most cases, and the fix there atSauvies would be land your kite and pass the bar thru the v of your center lines.) |
Wow. You are right. Thanks.
And I was hiking over the weekend when it occurred to me that I could pass the bar through the V on the center lines and I was dying to get home and post this question to the forums! Thanks! |
Here is something you might profit from... it will allow you to study and memorize the proper procedure for undoing the results of an inversion, while you are standing in shallow water. This can be a very dangerous thing to do, for a number of reasons. It would be much safer to get the kite to shore and do this procedure on shore, but if you are going to do this on shore, it would be faster to disconnect two front or two back lines.
Anyway... my suggestion is to do what I did in the old days... make a little "puppet kite", modeled after your real kite.
Here's a picture of what I did "back in the day", when I was using a 2001 Fuel, with a rear line reride.
I learned a lot by "rehearsing" the things that can go wrong, where the kite tangles in any number of ways... and how to untangle the mess out on the water.
A very important thing to remember is that when the kite is down on the water, you will need to flip the bar (in the correct direction), before passing the bar through the "V" of the front lines. You will learn all of this kind of stuff, while practicing the procedures on the kitchen table.
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puppet kite 1.JPG |
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kitebot
Since 20 Feb 2007
251 Posts
Obsessed
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| Wed Sep 14, 11 3:17 pm |
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| Hey Kitezilla, nice job on the puppet kite, I think there's a market for these. I've rolled my kite in crashes a couple times and have gotten the rear lines through themselves, but always came back in and detached the lines then rewalked them before heading back out again. I can certainly see the use in rehearsing or replaying disaster scenarios. It's weird that so many people call this situation an inversion. Anyways good work!
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L1ft
Since 26 Jul 2011
22 Posts
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| Wed Sep 14, 11 4:32 pm |
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I had thought of the word "inversion" and then searched, found this, and assumed it was what I wanted.
Nevertheless, on that fateful hike I had also resolved myself to build a "puppet kite," so, zilla, do you have any advice on how you wrangled that together?
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kitezilla
Since 22 Jun 2006
453 Posts
gorge
Obsessed
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| Thu Sep 15, 11 7:10 am |
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| L1ft wrote: | I had thought of the word "inversion" and then searched, found this, and assumed it was what I wanted.
Nevertheless, on that fateful hike I had also resolved myself to build a "puppet kite," so, zilla, do you have any advice on how you wrangled that together? |
I used some old scraps of NSI foam deckpad, so that the kite could "flag out". The handle was an old toothbrush. I put the little black elastic line between the wingtips, so that I could hang the kite on the top edge of an open door and demonstrate how you change the "angle of attack" of the kite by pushing and pulling on the bar.
I am sure you will do a better job, than I did...but it served the purpose of showing beginners how a kite works... and how screwed up things can get if the lines are hooked up wrong, or the kite flips through itself, or tangles, or the bar gets threaded between the lines, or...or...or...
Here is a link to the original thread on KF, where the "puppet kite" is somewhat the object of ridicule:
"Tinkering"- make puppet kite - avoid kitemare?
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2321370
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