Advice on self launching

Chooch · Tue Sep 08, 09 7:10 pm

Yeah I guess I didn't word that the right way. Embarassed

I just know that when I do it, it works great and my kite has never had an issue with wear. Thumb's Up

Gman · Since 11 Feb 2006 4911 Posts Portland Unstrapped

some things are better illustrated in person...

- haven't sanded the wingtip method in 4 years

- i see people use the board to weight the kite - but with surfboards - I've had them take flight on windy days - I just use some sand - maybe grab a few scoops out of what you normally sand down the kite

- just spend an extra minute to ensure all lines are clear before you yank away

C Johnson · Since 17 Apr 2009 854 Posts Seattle Opinionated

I have a bit of a dilemma. my low tides are getting few and far between as we approach fall.

how does one self launch reliably in this kind of situation:

Side/onshore wind
little to no beach (at high tide)
15-20ft bluff directly downwind
wind shadow created by bluff
even a mild back draft created up close to the bluff.

I have done it with a secured chickenloop successfully a few times but with the wind shadow its hard to keep the kite sitting on its wingtip.

I bought some sandbags and I'm going to try sandbagging a wingtip in my next attempt but I'm not sure how to safely land afterwards other then to crash the kite into the wind shadow and hope I can run up to it before it blows into the trees and blackberry bushes on the bluff Shocked

I'm currently trying to do this with a Kahoona 9.5m on a Naish SLE bar setup mini 5th line style with no OS handles. I'll also be trying to accomplish this on nuking days with a 6m LF session on the same bar.

I attached a picture of the spot. the parking lot has plenty of room to rig and launch but the problem is the wind tends to go over the parking lot and reflect off the bluff so its light and shifty in there.

Spike · Since 13 May 2007 1414 Posts Alameda Spelling Expert

what about pulling your release near the shore and while standing in the shallows, roll up your lines with your kite still attached as if it were a self-rescue? The wind would have to side-shore enough so it doesn't end up crashing in the rocks though. Or you could pull your release in deeper water and swim to shore if the wind is more onshore. Doesn't look like there is too much current there.

Looks and sounds like a sketchy launch, but props for kiting there anyway Thumb's Up

!

Gman · Since 11 Feb 2006 4911 Posts Portland Unstrapped

Don't die

C Johnson · Since 17 Apr 2009 854 Posts Seattle Opinionated

yeah its across the street from my house so its definitely a sliding scale between sketchiness and convenience. the higher the tide the more sketchy it gets. anything below a 4ft tide is pretty easy and safe to launch and land. anything below a 1ft tide is hard packed sand which can go out a 1/4 mile if its like a -2 or -3 tide.

there is other spots that are "safer" within 30-40min drive from here but with the days getting short its hard not to want to just walk out my front door and make it work after work or during my lunch break when I might only have 1-2 hours to squeeze in.

unfortunately most of the low tides during the fall/winter are at night Crying or Very sad

maybe I need to rig up some christmas lights on my kite Laughing

current is almost non-existent. to the point that I don't even notice the difference between incoming and outgoing.

last time I rode I found I was able to drop my kite down into the wind shadow. secure the chicken loop and run up and grab it before anything bad happened. I'm not sure if I want to make a habit out of that since I could wreck my kite the first time it tumbles but so far it seems to be working.

self rescue style landing might be the safest most reliable option. its just too bad that involves swimming and coating my lines in seaweed.

kitezilla · Since 22 Jun 2006 453 Posts gorge Obsessed

Wow!...seaweed too...

Seaweed is my arch nemesis in doing unconventional self launches and landings.

It sounds like the ocean bottom drops off very gradually. You might be able to set up a buoy and a "deadman" anchor for the higher tide levels. If, at high tide, you were able to walk in shallow water, from the buoy directly downwind for 100 feet, then, there is a type of launch you could do.

How safe is the self-rescue using the "mini-fifth" style safety system? Does it keep the kite under good control, when the kite is directly downwind of you? For instance, I know that the Cabrinha IDS system is designed to keep the kite on its nose, facing into the wind, when it is deployed. Does the Best system work the same way?

I can refer you to a couple of articles on the style of self-launch that I have in mind (and I use this method, with a 5th line,often), if the answer is "yes" to the above questions.

C Johnson · Since 17 Apr 2009 854 Posts Seattle Opinionated

Yeah I hate seaweed too.

luckily its only really bad right in the shore wash. once you get out in the water the debris is very minimal and the water is clean.

the mini 5th line attaches to the swivel above the depower line so all it does is basically fully sheet in the main lines.

I am using a naish bar but the way I have it setup is I think very similar to the best redline bar.

i know both kites are 5th line compatible and I think I may have enough misc lines laying around to add one to my bar but it'd be nice to avoid doing that if possible.

I had thought about maybe running a floating line from the beach out to a bouy that I could pull myself out on. that might be similar to what you're talking about.

Anyway I'm interested to see what you post up.

Blokt · Thu Sep 10, 09 1:53 pm

1) Buy a foil (Brian can tell you which one) Smile

2) Lay it out directly downwind with sand on the trailing edge.

3) Hook up to the chicken loop with slack on lines.

4) Double check and test safety.

5) Check for clearance downwind and/or anyone coming in for landing or launching.

6) Stand up and keep bar extended.

7) Apply tension to lines and steer the kite left and right to fill it with air, as it slowly rises into the sky. Kite begins to gain power as it inflates.

Cool

Partake of a sweet sesh.

C Johnson · Since 17 Apr 2009 854 Posts Seattle Opinionated

I've flown many different foils. great kites.

I still have a 12m Flysurfer Speed 2 which is an awesome light/medium wind kite for smooth thermals

the winds at this spot are Southerly frontal based winds which can change quickly and usually have lots of gusts and rotors mixed in them. For that I have never had good luck with foils.

A pulse 2 8m is probably about the best foil for launching here but I need to be able to do secure chicken loop launches and unfortunately flysurfer doesn't make a kite that can do that currently.

As far as I know, secure chicken loop launches don't work on C-kites either. If they did I would be packing a quiver of C-kites and foils but instead I'm Foils for light stuff and SLE's for 20+

also landing a foil here would be a nightmare because of the seaweed. the only way I can think of doing it would be to go to the 5th line in the water and pack up as I drift in. I have tried that before on a 12m Pulse 2 and ended up with a ball of wet kite and weeds. nothing I couldn't handle but its a mess I wouldn't want to deal with every time I ride.

Gman · Since 11 Feb 2006 4911 Posts Portland Unstrapped

C Johnson · Since 17 Apr 2009 854 Posts Seattle Opinionated

I kinda like that bucket idea.

couldn't I achieve the same thing by rigging the kite, checking the lines and then re winding the lines on the bar and then letting them out again as I wade out into the water? if so then I have done that before at a different spot with a foil kite. the hardest part was getting enough resistance to pull the kite up without being able to touch bottom. I had to kick hard and then turn my body sideways into body dragging position to get the kite up. I supposed I could use the bucket as a sea anchor when I'm trying to launch Wink

btw at high tide I can only walk out about 10ft before its over head because the top part of the beach is pretty steep.

when the tide is low enough to wade out in the water there is enough beach exposed to do a conventional launch.

the picture I posted was on a day where I felt like I had plenty of room to work with.

kitezilla · Since 22 Jun 2006 453 Posts gorge Obsessed

Opps...my idea won't work, since it was based on the premise that you could stand up at the buoy and walk 100 feet down wind. Here is a picture of the sort of buoy (Bowtender invented by a KF poster, Wetstuff).

Still, if you had a permanent anchor and a little raft, and a lot of desire, maybe this method would work for you. You would swim your kite out from the boat which would be tied to the anchor. You would use the line tender tool, that I tinkered up, to feed out the lines as you swam, to make sure there are no tangles...and you would place the kite on its nose, suspended on a fifth line, which is fastened to the buoy. Then, you would swim back to the raft and launch the kite from the back of the raft, using the fifth line and a steering line, like a puppeteer. It would be a challenging trick.

By swimming the kite from the buoy, you avoid the multiple pitfalls of any type of "drift" launch.

In the next post, I will present the post I was going to give...before you clarified the subject of the depth of the bottom. However, from the links and the discussion in these threads, you might get some more ideas. I have been involved in most of the threads on KF over the years, along with a lot of other people, trying to solve a situation, such as yours.

Have fun...safety first!

kitezilla · Since 22 Jun 2006 453 Posts gorge Obsessed

For a lot more ideas on non-conventional self launch techniques, go to Kiteforum.com and do a search by entering the "keyword" as 'self launch' and then, enter the "author" as 'Kitezilla'. There are about 60 entries, but the threads that pertain to your situation are the three threads entitled:

.....................................................

Anyone ever launch from a lake with no beaches?

Re: onshore wind and small area self launch

No beach? No problema ...with a Bowtender.

.......................................................

Grab a beer and set aside about 2 hours for some real fun reading.

Click on the threads within the posts, for clarification on details.

If you come up with a better method of self launch, then reawaken those threads, by presenting your developments on KF... or ask more questions.

K4L · Since 19 Jan 2009 483 Posts Obsessed

With the Redline bar on my Kahoona it has ALWAYS just sat on the wingtip when letting go of the bar, even when overpowered

C Johnson · Since 17 Apr 2009 854 Posts Seattle Opinionated

C Johnson · Since 17 Apr 2009 854 Posts Seattle Opinionated

I think I may have a potential solution to my problem.

there is a private no bank lot a few miles down the road that is supposed to be a community beach access. if I can get permission from the community then I think I'll have an official rigging area.

I've flown a kite at it before but didn't ask if it was okay first. fortunately I know one of the neighbors Wink

oh yeah!