Not ok to snowkite but lets kill all the wolves!

$ociopath · Since 28 Nov 2007 523 Posts Twilight Zone Addicted

Off topic I guess although it makes me mad. So I've been getting emails from the petition.com since I signed the snowkite issue. I'm glad I am. Anyway the newest issue on there is about the 1500 wolves in Yellowstone. Just when you thought Bush and his admin couldn't possibly have been any more of a bunch of duschbags. Anyway no more off topic stuff for me.

pdxmonkeyboy · Tue Apr 21, 09 8:04 am

Pretty lame indeed. The wolf issue was finally calming down in Oregon after a couple years of public out cry. From everything that I read wolves have been awesome for the yellowstone ecosystem.

A couple years after they were first introduced into the park biologists started to see a rapid reforestation of the riparian areas. They were puzzled at first but after studying the issue they discovered that the deer and elk could no longer just lazily hang out by the streams and eat every single new tree and shrub shoot. Turns out those that did were getting munched by wolves. Who would have thought that introducing a top predator back into the system would revitalize vegetation communities.

craz z · Since 01 Dec 2008 130 Posts Montana Stoked

Lamer then that is that winter travel is virtually at a stand still in the park. Those that claim the winter is more stagnant and bilers are polluting the air during winter months are completely way off base. 5000-bilers or 20,000 cars and buses which pollutes more?

Even when the park was open to all travel the rangers had the authority of charging not only for speeding but every foot off road with a Bil was a 100$ fine.

The bilers helped the animals travel around and get to food sources. I can remember traveling in the park and the ECO-nuts had large lens camera's at every entrance to plead their case of polluting vehicles. well duh they are idling waiting to get in. At such a limited number even when open to all bils nothing compares to the 20,000 plus vehicles that pour into the park during summertime.

The wolf subject very touchy indeed. If you are a hunter or even an admirer of wildlife and saw the numbers of animals lost with the introduction of wolves you would fall off your chair. but maybe it was necessary to have some population control to grow the vegetation after the 88 fire.

Either way snowkiting or any winter travel in the park with the 20feet of snow at any given time warrants ZERO restrictions. Oh well I guess we're stuck with the decisions of special intrest groups from other parts of the country. It sure is nice when you live somewhere for its beauty and freedom and let other people that are only visiting to dictate to you how you should live.

I'd say our chances of opening up the wilderness and national parks for kiting are near ZERO. Petition or No petition.

We should look at the radical groups imposing these dumb rules and plead our case that we are enviromentally friendly group that does not harm or change the way wildernesses are protected.

Also i've heard reports of some of us idiot kiters cutting trees down to get our kites out of them. This needs to stop or we will not be going anywhere with this fight.

NateDogg · Tue Apr 21, 09 9:27 am

What's a biler? snowmobiler?

EdG · Since 19 Dec 2005 425 Posts Just a Kook that's Obsessed

genek · Since 21 Jul 2006 2165 Posts East Po KGB

I think it's referring to a person cruising around drinking beer in the winter, right? Wink

Really sad to hear about people's stupidity sometimes. Who was it that decided kites were a mechanised means of transportation anyway (or whatever the definition is)? Any chance we could prove that the definition doesn't apply to us?

As far as people cutting down trees to get their kites down, is it really happening often enough to warrant discussion? If so, those people need to take a kiting lesson.

SalmonSlayer · Since 27 Nov 2005 648 Posts Addicted **CGKA Member**

pdxmonkeyboy · Tue Apr 21, 09 11:48 am

craz z · Since 01 Dec 2008 130 Posts Montana Stoked

Yes bilers= snowmobile

As far as emissions IF they are so bad why make a single engine 2 stroke with the new 4 stroke technology why not just squash them all together.

Ok forget the 2 stroke. Why is it 4 stroke only, Plus a guide (mandatory), plus a limit on how many go in and out.

Its quite obvious you are one that voted for the ban.

I've been in the park many of times and not once saw an animal freak or get disturbed by a snowmobile not once. In the summer idiots piss the animals off all the time an the animals fight back.

It really doesn't matter what you or I think there is nothing that can be done now.
Two strokes aren't the problem.
Snowmobiles aren't the problem.
wolf lovers aren't the problem.
snowkiters aren't the problem.

The problem are the special intrest groups wining with all their money kicking all of us out to save some special cause that makes ZERO sense whatsoever.

fokiten · Since 04 Mar 2005 188 Posts Stoked

There once was a sub-set sans brains
whose reasoning led them to chains:
they'd close off the park
make like Noah an ark
For that day when no one remains..

Fuck the environment...

Throw that can down and let's get on with it...

fo

pdxmonkeyboy · Wed Apr 22, 09 9:29 am

I'm not so sure that the solutions make zero sense. Unfortunately you can't make a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke, they are entirely different animals. Except for maybe lawn mowers and very small engines, 2-strokes really don't have a place anymore. You have to kind of question a combustion system that ejects raw, un burned gas with every rotation. Water vehicle manufacturers saw the writing on the wall and most water vehicles are now 4-strokes only.

In terms of wolves and the amount of animals that they eat I wouldn't stay up late at night worrying about it. Wolves were here on this planet 1,000 of years before we ever showed up with your night vision glasses, high power riffles with precision optic scopes, and ATV's. Somehow, by some miracle of population dynamics and natural selection, all the larger mammals did just fine in the presence of the wolves.

The wolf population exploded and yes, it was serious feeding time in the park and the surrounding area. But in the end, what this is a sign of is that there were too many large mammals in the park because of a lack of top predators. The prey numbers have fallen (not as much as you might think) and in turn, the number of wolves (or more specifically, their birth rates) will slow in response. Despite this fairly easy to comprehend tenant of population dynamics, hunters often seem to gloss over it. "hey, their eating my elk!!". Well, hate to say it but a wolf has got to eat as well. He is hunting to survive, most hunters I know go hunting to get away from their wives, hang out with the dudes, and play with their new toys. They are both valid reasons to go hunting, but I'm not sure how some hunters can lobby for trapping and killing a top predator so they can have a better chance to shoot a wild animal. ESPECIALLY since when you artificially lower the number of top predators what do you think happens?... the amount of prey increases and in response, the birth rates of predators increases.

Seriously, I don't know how fish and game and park managers ever get anything done. Every decision they make is constantly under attack from individuals even if their points are completely invalid or not for the better public good.

Your right about special interest groups though, they really tend to muck things up. One thing you can do though is go snowmobiling in the 10,000 plus acres of public lands that encircle the park.....just a thought.

craz z · Since 01 Dec 2008 130 Posts Montana Stoked

well whats the difference between a wilderness and a national park?

National park has specific roadways for lets say technological advances such as cars wheeled vehicles etc.

Wilderness no such Items a horse or a walking human no technological advances whatsoever.

Equally they are both majestic in beauty and recreation opportunity.

Why do the special interest groups want these so heavily restricted how are we to enjoy them if we can't access anything.

Thats truly what makes no sense.

Winter in a park or wilderness is a completely different experience then summer tourist season.

I get your point on the 2 stroke, so why the guide and why the limits?

Why are there heavily enforced rules on flight over these area's?
Especially in a wilderness if a small aircraft lands during an emergency They are REQUIRED to tear down and hire a outfitter to get the parts out. No takeoffs period?

This is what gets tricky with what we do. Although we know we aren't considered a aircraft, but if we leave the ground we automatically fall under this category. It sucks and in the free flight world certain exceptions have been made (ex. hanggliding is permissable in yosemite) Although paragliding and base is strictly illegal.

We are allowed to back country ski/board. I don't care what these people think we aren't hurting a damn thing when there is 4 feet of snow on the ground.

it seriously doesn't make sense.

pdxmonkeyboy · Wed Apr 22, 09 11:12 am

my understanding is that national parks are for preservation and enjoyment by the public. Because the majority of the public won't go far from their cars, they have roads and services. They have their place..chiefly for public education.

Wilderness areas were designed to protect the last remaining truly wild areas that are left. There are not specifically designed for human enjoyment and thus, the many rules about what can and cannot be done in them. without getting all misty eyed, wilderness areas are supposed to be special places and areas where you can escape from all the nonsenses and BS of modern day life.

Even if snowkiting leaves no trace, and is completely silent, I think that is not the entire issue. If I wasn't a kiter and ventured out into the wilderness in the winter to escape from everything. I could see where people would be pretty bummed if they climbed up on a ridge or something to just soak all the quiet emptiness in and low and behold, there was a bunch of big colorful contraptions flying all over.

I don't think they should be banned, I'm just saying that I could see where people are coming from. The bummer is that I have the suspicion that all those people raising a stink are never in the wilderness in the winter.

fokiten · Since 04 Mar 2005 188 Posts Stoked

No props for my limerick?

o'well...

Perhaps you all read it in haste?
or were anxious to somehow lambaste
The odd snow-mo-bealer
or send out your feeler
to see if it's hunting's the waste?

tough to know
fo

genek · Since 21 Jul 2006 2165 Posts East Po KGB

pdxmonkeyboy · Wed Apr 22, 09 1:05 pm

If there was no difference, then there wouldn't be an issue. I don't see the big rub in terms of impacts and what not, but the law doesn't say anything about impacts.

It speaks of using mechanical advantage. I signed the petition and I'm hoping for the best but if I was forced to predict the future of kiteboarding in wilderness areas....bye bye kiteboarding.

Crying or Very sad

stringer · Since 31 Jul 2007 694 Posts Chucktown Flying Tomato

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/150462