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SNOWKITING IS NOW ILLEGAL WITHIN THE WILDERNESS!
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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Mark

Since 20 Jun 2005
3618 Posts
I need my fix because I'm a
Naishaholic



PostSun Feb 01, 09 10:36 am     Reply with quote

Mark wrote:


If you want support, go to the Blue Ribbon coalition. They are a very organized and powerful group. They have gotten access back over the years.

http://www.sharetrails.org/


Today, the BlueRibbon Coalition is a respected national recreation group that represents over 10,000 individual members and 1,200 organization and business members, for a combined total of over 600,000 recreationists nationwide.

.


Sign up.... They have lawyers on retainer. Get them involved. They will fight for us.

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Sasquatch

Since 09 Mar 2005
1665 Posts
P-town
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PostSun Feb 01, 09 10:36 am    BUNK Reply with quote

BUNK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Evil or Very Mad Sad Mad
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pdxmonkeyboy

Since 16 May 2006
6041 Posts
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PostSun Feb 01, 09 10:52 am     Reply with quote

Welcome wilderness snowkiters, you have no entered the delicate arena of public land use policy. Things happen slowly in this arena and you have to be strategic about how you handle matters. Obviously, there is some grey area here in terms of how the wilderness act is interpreted.

As others have stated, the LAST THING YOU WANT TO DO is start posting agro threads and name calling (this means you Ian). Your not going to be able to simply call someone and they are going to say OK, have at it. I'm probably telling you what you already know but the process looks something like this.

1. download a copy of the wilderness act.
2. google other activities that have been prohibited.
3. Designate ONE person to contact the forest service manager.
4. Ask to sit down face to face with him and go over the reasons for the decision and get an overview of the comments that they have recieved.
5. You can make a FOI request to get a copy of all public comments that they recieved.
6. Review all the material and start to formulate our case from there.

Obviously, there are people that don't want to see people snowkite in these places. From the posts, they are trying to make the case that it is flying, which it is not. You could make the case the CC and telemark skies are more mechanized than kites are. I think you have to emphasize that you are not some band of reckless teenagers that want to run roughshod over wilderness areas. There are many snowkiters that simple enjoy the great outdoors and expansive wild spaces, it is not your intent to change the character of the wilderness area and the wilderness act was NOT created to prevent people from accessing and enjoying the benefits of wilderness. You need to meet with these other groups and discuss your opinions in a constructive manner and be prepared for a long process.

I would be more than happy to help collect signatures if a petition gets started..that is, after you've made some contacts and a good petition document has been drafted.

Sorry to hear it guys. But fear not, all hope is not lost.

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blowhard

Since 26 Dec 2005
2003 Posts

Windward



PostSun Feb 01, 09 11:24 am     Reply with quote

Inept_Fun wrote:
.

Although now you guys can all go regular snowboarding more often which is a lot more fun!!

Sorry to hear of the spot loss tho, hope you get it back.


see we agree on some things Laughing Laughing

This controversy is not about what the "people" want
it's about wildlife
turns out kiters aren't wild enough Laughing

meanwhile back at the ranch
that Summer Ridge is lookin mo betta

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Yardsale

Since 29 Mar 2005
387 Posts
Portlanastan
Obsessed



PostSun Feb 01, 09 12:30 pm     Reply with quote

Inept_Fun wrote:
fucken tree huggers, im all for helping the environment but what are you really destroying/endangering by going kiting in a forest? Plus its not like you are going to harm any trees as you cant really kite close to them. Although now you guys can all go regular snowboarding more often which is a lot more fun!!

Sorry to hear of the spot loss tho, hope you get it back.


Cmon now Ian.....trees love you, love em back little buddy! I'm sure your bonk'n them on a regular basis! haha!

Last edited by Yardsale on Sun Feb 01, 09 2:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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kyle.vh

Since 11 Jul 2007
713 Posts
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PostSun Feb 01, 09 12:42 pm    Jason, Reply with quote

If you're on this forum, I'd encourage you to delete your comment on ww.org that begins "just wondering if this"ORGANIZATION!? had anythin to do w the blatent disregaurd of the naturall and abundant source of wind power in the wilderness ereas we have accesed?..."
and becomes more inflammatory and accusatory...
I'm not trying to be a dick to you. I know you're upset. but those comments do more harm then good. we need to paint ourselves as polite and respectful wilderness advocates.

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DROCK999

Since 31 May 2007
852 Posts
Left Coast
Opinionated



PostSun Feb 01, 09 1:45 pm     Reply with quote

PETITION IT. keep kiting anyway and if they ticket you take it to court. there's no possible scientific research that could prove that you guys are harming anything.
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EdG

Since 19 Dec 2005
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PostSun Feb 01, 09 2:20 pm     Reply with quote

pdxmonkeyboy wrote:

1. download a copy of the wilderness act.
2. google other activities that have been prohibited.
3. Designate ONE person to contact the forest service manager.
4. Ask to sit down face to face with him and go over the reasons for the decision and get an overview of the comments that they have recieved.
5. You can make a FOI request to get a copy of all public comments that they recieved.
6. Review all the material and start to formulate our case from there.


Why can't we all get along? It boggles my mind that 'freedom' people can't understand what wind can do!

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pjc

Since 06 Mar 2005
649 Posts

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PostTue Feb 17, 09 10:05 am     Reply with quote

Bump -

What looks like the same article was reprinted in the Register-Guard today (Eugene's paper)

http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/sports/outdoors/6523701-44/story.csp

No mention of recent developments (the RG's crack reporting team doing it's usual bang-up job).

One thing occurs to me - if there is any concern about access whatsoever, and a reporter asks you to summarize kiting, don't use motorcycle/chair-lift/motorboat analogies. I think making comparisons to sailing is not only more accurate but less likely to excite the eco-nazis.

(20-20 hindsight, obviously, not trying to slag).

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pdxmonkeyboy

Since 16 May 2006
6041 Posts
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PostTue Feb 17, 09 11:03 am     Reply with quote

Very Happy Shocked Rolling Eyes Crying or Very sad
Last edited by pdxmonkeyboy on Wed Feb 18, 09 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total

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Moto

Since 03 Sep 2006
2696 Posts
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PostTue Feb 17, 09 11:10 am     Reply with quote

Interesting analogy monkey - but you forgot to mention the bit about pilaging from local orphanages Shocked
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kyle.vh

Since 11 Jul 2007
713 Posts
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PostTue Feb 17, 09 1:08 pm     Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Mark wrote:


If you want support, go to the Blue Ribbon coalition. They are a very organized and powerful group. They have gotten access back over the years.

http://www.sharetrails.org/


Today, the BlueRibbon Coalition is a respected national recreation group that represents over 10,000 individual members and 1,200 organization and business members, for a combined total of over 600,000 recreationists nationwide.

.


Sign up.... They have lawyers on retainer. Get them involved. They will fight for us.


i respectfully disagree here. I think that aligning with a groups that represents activities which are illegal in wilderness the the opposite of what we want to do.
we need to remember we have been accessing the backcountry legally for nearly a decade--and still access it in most areas of OR and the rest of the US. our situation is unique. i'm not saying we can't learning anything from them. but to be clear, we would be learning what not to do. we need to create a separate group modeled on rock climbing and backcountry skier organizations which negotiate with USFS--like the accessfund -www.accessfund.org. I am trying to make some contacts there for advice. please send me any advice if you can.
i also STRONGLY agree comparing snowkiting to sailing at every opportunity--and stated this in early posts.
i cringed when i read this: " Its like having a motorbike up in the sky. ugg.
sorry to beat a dead horse there, and i know hindsight is 20/20.

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Mark

Since 20 Jun 2005
3618 Posts
I need my fix because I'm a
Naishaholic



PostTue Feb 17, 09 1:21 pm     Reply with quote

Kyle,
Your point is well taken. The problem is we have now been "cast out"and are banned from the wilderness. Organization of a new group takes time and money. Time can be a very precious thing when setting precedent. Joining a group that has lobbyists, lawyers, and a lot of money seems to make sense. They don't just represent motor sports. They are for ALL ACCESS.

We could do both....

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kyle.vh

Since 11 Jul 2007
713 Posts
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PostTue Feb 17, 09 2:02 pm     Reply with quote

i hear what you're saying Mark. Maybe it is the best move, but i don't think so. But I think that joining the all access movement is essentially getting all the baggage of sports that will never get access. And maybe never should considering the wording and implied intent of the wilderness act.
If people are for all access, that's cool by me. But i think the best interest of snowkiters will be represented by a new group devoted solely to them. If you're a snowkiter for 'all access', i'd encourage you to join both groups.
Also remember we have NOT been cast out yet. As far as we know it is only illegal in certain wilderness areas in bend. I have since kited in wilderness areas and spoken with rangers who had no problem with snowkiting. plus there's no indication that other states will follow this. AND states like MT, for example, are very reluctant to accept and enforce new laws with their libertarian attitudes.
remember snowkiting has been legal for a decade and still is in in 99.99% of wilderness lands. we have precedence on our side, many sports do not. we are in a unique position and we need to capitalize on it.

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mit_noslrac

Since 17 May 2005
108 Posts
Bend Oregon
Stoked



PostTue Feb 17, 09 2:19 pm     Reply with quote

Aaron Sales is editing the petition wording and will send out the petition link for everyone to sign when it is complete and approved.

Had a long conversation with the Forest Service yesterday after they received our letter of concern. Chris Sabo said he did receive it and is sending it up the chain of command. He said that this is a national issue not local and they are making the decision clear up in Washington D.C. He said it will be a year or so before he will start issuing tickets or that it becomes officially illegal. There will be a certain amount of time for public comment.


Below is what the reporter from the Oregonian showed me that he got from Chris Sabo from the Forest Service. Except the one he showed me was edited to say no snowkites .

From the Forest Service Manual 2320.5.3

http://www.fs.fed.us/im/directives/fsm/2300/2320.doc#_Toc157225531

3. Mechanical Transport. Any contrivance for moving people or material in or over land, water, or air, having moving parts, that provides a mechanical advantage to the user, and that is powered by a living or nonliving power source. This includes, but is not limited to, sailboats, hang gliders, parachutes, bicycles, game carriers, carts, and wagons. It does not include wheelchairs when used as necessary medical appliances. It also does not include skis, snowshoes, rafts, canoes, sleds, travois, or similar primitive devices without moving parts.

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eli_anderson

Since 04 Jun 2007
507 Posts

Addicted



PostTue Feb 17, 09 2:53 pm     Reply with quote

will snowkiting still be cool when it isn't illegal?

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kyle.vh

Since 11 Jul 2007
713 Posts
city of angels
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PostTue Feb 17, 09 3:26 pm     Reply with quote

mit_noslrac wrote:

From the Forest Service Manual 2320.5.3

http://www.fs.fed.us/im/directives/fsm/2300/2320.doc#_Toc157225531

3. Mechanical Transport. Any contrivance for moving people or material in or over land, water, or air, having moving parts, that provides a mechanical advantage to the user, and that is powered by a living or nonliving power source. This includes, but is not limited to, sailboats, hang gliders, parachutes, bicycles, game carriers, carts, and wagons. It does not include wheelchairs when used as necessary medical appliances. It also does not include skis, snowshoes, rafts, canoes, sleds, travois, or similar primitive devices without moving parts.


f#ck.

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