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Making A Lineset
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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Wicked

Since 10 Jul 2009
2 Posts
Seattle
New Member



PostFri Jul 10, 09 8:48 am     Reply with quote

A couple of more tips to help splicing 12 strand spectra, AKA Amsteel.

In Seattle you can find it at Fisheries and LFS. Fisheries sells it from Samson. Plenty of colors. LFS in Ballard sells only gray. LFS, Lummi Fishing Supply is a comercial fishing outlet.
All spectra is produced white and then dye is added. As the line ages the color goes fast. This does not effect the strength unlike PBO and Vectran.

When splicing very small diam. line instead of a fid I use a thin wire folded in half. Take a twelve inch section and bend it in half to form an eye. Ater you have formed the eye of the splice then bury the tail. Instead of putting the tail in a fid and going down you would insert the wire in the long end of the line and push it up. Granted you must insert the wire one inch lower then the tailthat you will bury.
Work the wire up the core poke it out where you want the eyesplice. Then unraval the twelve strand that you will bury and put three or strands in the wire eye. Now pull it all slowely down until the tail comes out the insertion point.

No mention of this step in other posts but remember to taper the line. As it comes out cut away one strand every inch o so up to the spice point. This will ease the transition of the bury.

Also, most people produce some sort of lock knot before you bury the line. If this is noe done you will need to lock the splice with some wipping line.

Please go to Samson's web site and read the instructions for splicing 12 strand line.

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andrewbanandrew

Since 15 Jun 2009
7 Posts

Kook



PostFri Jul 10, 09 12:29 pm     Reply with quote

100m of 7/64" amsteel is almost exactly 1 lb. 100m of Jerry Brown Line One 800 lb Spectra Hollow Braid is 0.580737 pounds, or about 7 oz lighter than amsteel.

Would 7 oz really make a difference? Or is it more about the windage?

Also, Wicked is right about the splicing details: you really need to taper the buried portion or the splice will fail at the buried tip!

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Blue

Since 03 Jul 2007
469 Posts
I used to be
Obsessed



PostFri Jul 10, 09 9:06 pm     Reply with quote

Thanks for the tapering hint!
In a meantime I found this place for a cheap spectra, very good price and it comes in color!

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sekiller

Since 27 Oct 2011
1 Posts

New Member



PostThu Oct 27, 11 6:57 am     Reply with quote

not sure if this post is still being watched, but do you think, the amsteel blue 7/64 could be used for kite lines? It's stronger than Spectra/Dyneema and not so much thicker than 800lb spectra.
Of course mainly for cost, as a 600ft reel can be bought at 120USD.

Thanks

//edit//
actually just noticed that 7/64 is mentioned above (and I've read this thread through and through couple of times). so did anyone tested it in real conditions? How does it behave?

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
3908 Posts
Camas
XTreme Poster

CGKA Member


PostThu Oct 27, 11 7:28 am     Reply with quote

Here's 600 feet of Jerry Brown 800# line for $106. http://www.bhptackle.com/home.php?cat=46 I haven't ever tried the 7/64" amsteel for a kite line. It just looks too big and heavy. 800# is more than strong enough. 1/8" Amsteel doubled up on itself to make 3/16" double core line makes a great depower rope though!

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henjj

Since 09 Dec 2010
24 Posts
Spokane
 



PostSat Nov 17, 12 7:32 am    Thanks! Reply with quote

Nak, Thanks for the detailed post on splicing loops. I work at a camp in Iowa and have some slingshot trainers that we use to teach kids some of the basics of kiting. When the linesets on these trainers break, they usually break at the loop. In the past, I just purchased replacements from Slingshot. But then to try and save some money, I started to repair them by just cutting the sleeve off, putting it back on and re-tying the knot. I came across your post and decided to give the splicing thing a try to see if the splice would hold up better than the knot. By the way, using an old b or e guitar string as a fid worked perfect! Because the slingshot trainer lines are much thinner than the 800# line that you use in your example, I splice the line with the sheath on the loop to give the loop some extra padding so it won't cut through the attachment point on the trainers (see my picture below). Splicing the lines has made them stronger and they break less.

This whole line splicing thing got me thinking about using some broken lines I had laying around to make some heavier duty lines for our trainers. The lineset was from one of my four lines kites that someone skated over with ice skates last winter. One line was severed and the other three were cut half way through. Needless to say, the lines have been just sitting in my office. I used the outside lines to make two sets of shorter lines for our trainers and the inside lines to make a short four line set to mess around with on my 8 meter kite. First, I spliced the lines back together. I used this guide: http://kiteracing.com/Splicing_Lines.html#20 (In this tutorial, in the loop making section, the guy makes his loop with a lock...this seems like it would negate the need to use stitching to keep the loop from slipping when under light or no load, no?). Then I cut all of the lines in half and spliced loops on the cut ends. Again, the liquid force lines seemed to be quite a bit thinner than the 800# line you used in your example, so I used some paracord sheath to give the loops some padding (see pictures below).

Hopefully now with these thicker lines this winter, we'll be able to fly more and repair less. One of these days when I need to replace the lines on one of my 4 line bars, I'll buy some of that 800# line and use the rest of your tutorial on how to pre-stretch them. Thanks!


Loop splice with paracord sheath
 Loop splice with paracord sheath  1117120821.jpg 
B3 loop splice with sheath on loop
 B3 loop splice with sheath on loop  1117120745.jpg 

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
3908 Posts
Camas
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PostTue Nov 20, 12 12:50 pm     Reply with quote

Cool! Very Happy

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PistolPete

Since 26 Apr 2010
15 Posts

 



PostSun Dec 15, 13 8:19 pm     Reply with quote

Nyce post Nak Thumb's Up

I just made some 800# Jerry Brown lines, nice stuff, but really does need the one time pre-stretch. Wanted to share the alternate endings I made, more like the OEM lines sleeved-stitched-loop. The 3mm Paracord I’ve used for 500# braded spectra was too small so I used 8” of Amsteel 7/64”. The two sides sewn up 2.5” leaves a 3” loop. Attached is a picture with an OEM 500# line on one side and a piece of Amsteel 7/64” on the other to show how thick the Amsteel with the 800# spectra core loop is. Not going to snap these lines Very Happy


   Sleeved800.jpg 

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
3908 Posts
Camas
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PostSat Dec 21, 13 10:59 am     Reply with quote

Very Nice! Thumb's Up

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kitezilla

Since 22 Jun 2006
452 Posts
gorge
Obsessed



PostTue Dec 24, 13 8:46 am     Reply with quote

Here is the next project. I thought that this innovation should win the "blue ribbon" award for kiting inventions of 2013! How many times have you had a line catch and stall just long enough for the wind to blow all the other lines around?... about every time you walk out your lines, right?

see:
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2383190&p=822641


   taper and stress riser solution.jpg 

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clamborghini

Since 16 Oct 2012
13 Posts

 



PostMon Aug 17, 15 8:04 am     Reply with quote

Thanks for the detailed instruction. This is a welcomed project for no wind on the east coast!

Does anyone have an idea of what kind of coating the OEM lines come with?

Thanks,
Chris

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anders

Since 01 May 2012
106 Posts

Stoked



PostWed Aug 19, 15 6:43 pm     Reply with quote

I'm definitely going to read this when I have more time! thanks

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jasonq

Since 12 Jan 2009
196 Posts
vancouver
Stoked



PostWed Aug 19, 15 7:41 pm     Reply with quote

this is a really handy site for splices.

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexsplicing.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

i use the mcdonald brummel splice, bury a tapered tail, toss on a few stitches for peace of mind, then put a pigtail on it instead of dealing with a sleeve.

I just mark a piece of paper, to give me the size loops and length tail i want, transfer the marks to the line, and each loop comes up the same size in the same place relative of the end of the line. couldn't be easier.

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sfbomber

Since 27 Jun 2012
99 Posts

 



PostThu Aug 20, 15 12:13 pm     Reply with quote

sekiller wrote:
do you think, the amsteel blue 7/64 could be used for kite lines? It's stronger than Spectra/Dyneema and not so much thicker than 800lb spectra.
Of course mainly for cost, as a 600ft reel can be bought at 120USD.

1/8 " amsteel works great for depower line (as posted in Nak's other post) as it is easily spliceable with a fid with a line in the line for added strength and minimizing wear and tear. On the other hand 7/64" is very difficult (too tight a weave) to splice long sections in my opinion. I have been unable to find a proper fid to splice long sections of 7/64". For just putting a loop at the the end of a 7/64" line, a steel yarn needle works well. But to answer your question, 7/64" can be used for a flying line, I've used it with applications like a 3-line kite where the front line used the single strong 7/64" amsteel. For a 4 line kite, I would definitely lean toward a pair of 800# lines, unless you are specifically looking for a failsafe flying line.

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Matt V

Since 26 Oct 2014
443 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
Explosive Diarrhea



PostThu Aug 20, 15 3:19 pm     Reply with quote

Curious on the coating thing too. I have been using 303 protectant to get less friction at the twist point in my lines. It does the job for about 2 sessions. I would like something longer lasting. McLube Sailkote?

Two things,

7/64th Amsteel braid seems to have tons of stretch compared to pre-stretched Jerry Brown linesets. I use the Jerry Brown line sets but have a bunch of the 7/64th SK-78 (spool says that at West Marine) that I am trying to use up for the leader up to the Y section of 2012 North bars. When looping the kite, this section wears pretty bad so I am constantly replacing it. Credit to North on their stock leader being so wear resistant (no credit for their 2012 flying/steering lines for wear resistance). I do not pre-stretch these leaders because they are only like 10ft long and being a center line, cannot make your kite out of tune. So I just splice them a bit short and stretch them out on the water. The bad thing is, this 10ft section of 1600lb test 7/64ths stuff stretches elastically way more than my Jerry Brown front lines. You actually loose some depower in the gusty conditions because of how the front of the kite moves away from you at the initiation of the gust on the center line stretch.

So my 2cents is that 7/64th Amsteel is junk. Maybe it is because it is round braid, maybe just the size. I will only buy the 1/8 stuff (it is flat braid) for front line leaders from now on.

And second, THANKS NAK! My Jerry Brown lines have held up for 8 months with no need for tuning/pigtailing. The wear like IRON too. They actually have worn through a few center line leaders (7/64th Amsteel).

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clamborghini

Since 16 Oct 2012
13 Posts

 



PostTue Aug 25, 15 6:58 am     Reply with quote

I ended up brushing on 2 thin coats of water based polyurethane. I'm pretty happy with the results...though I haven't tested my new line set on the water yet.

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