US Snowkite Association List

MW · Since 09 Jan 2006 186 Posts Hood River, Oregon Stoked

After talking with people involved in this recent mess regarding snowkiting being made illegal, it is imperative that we get a list of signatures and e-mail addresses from all snowkiters (in addition to all around kiteboarders) to gain momentum in this obvious battle with the USFS. It is good timing in that there are many snowkiting events going on within the next month, so getting the word out and gaining support, in addition to educating the public will be important. The Oregonian called me and Tim asking us questions about the issue and will run a story on it next Thursday. I invited Scott Silver from Wild Wilderness out for a coffee or beer to discuss the issue and to understand his side and possibly educate him on ours, and this was his response.

"Matt -

Thanks for the invite, but it is one I will politely decline.

Whether or not snowkiting within designated Wilderness is permitted, is a matter for the USFS or the courts to decide. It is a legal matter and personal viewpoints have little bearing.

For obvious reasons, I prefer not to discuss our interpretation of relevant regulations and legal precedents.

I can share this. The snowkiting issue was on the agency's radar before it appeared on my own. Whatever they decide will reflect their understanding of the law.

My contribution to this issue was, perhaps, to expedite the agency's decision making process -- but my contribution was relatively insignificant in comparison to that of Bend Kite Crew, their Kite Fest, and the publicity it generated.

Scott"

This only re-iterates to me the refusal for extreme advocacy groups to welcome a challenge of ideas, ultimately turning a nose up on logic, and is actually disappointing as I thought we could possibly work together or at the very least, educate each other. Nonetheless, it is not surprising and only strengthens the urgency to fight it, before not only our spot is gone, but all spots across the country that lie within the wilderness boundary. I will be bringing a list to gain signatures and contact information to Idaho this next week in order to present to the USFS and the local departments that snowkiting should be included as an appropriate form of "non-mechanized" recreation and travel. Aaron Sales mentioned the idea of the US Snowkite Association, and it is one I think we should all get involved with. Please let me know what all of you think about it and how we should proceed from here. Sorry for the longwinded post. Contact me with your idea.

kyle.vh · Since 11 Jul 2007 713 Posts city of angels Addicted

matt,

man, that guy is a dick. won't get a coffee with you?
but extreme he is not. that's important to understand, he represents the majority opinion on this matter, and its important to understand his viewpoint.

I think we need to make a website, and quickly raise money to hire a lawyer who can legitimately negotiate with the FS and present the best possible argument. I have time and am web savvy and would love to participate. This is exactly what the Access Fund does (rock-climbing organization).

i think that we need to present an argument of 'restricted snowkite access'--which might include restrictions such as small groups, natural colored kites, and limited 'jumping'.

Lastly we do not want to join forces with other banned groups (ie- snowmobiling hangglideing)--we want to remain distinct from them.
those are my thoughts.

Gman · Since 11 Feb 2006 4911 Posts Portland Unstrapped

Silver just hates your snow machine - I think if the activity was "take blind children camping in the wilderness assisted by snow machine to the boundry"- he would find some YouTube video with a blazing soundtrack and wilding hordes...

http://www.wildwilderness.org/content/blogcategory/21/61/

stringer · Since 31 Jul 2007 694 Posts Chucktown Flying Tomato

Wow.
Why on earth would he turn down free beer?
Who cares what you talk about.

Did anyone see Steep?
Bill Briggs has a quote in there that I really liked.
Talking about flying up and seeing his tracks from his 1st Grand Teton descent he referred to it as something like "the beauty of nature enhanced by human touch."
Maybe we should produce media that reflects this attitude a little better.

stringer · Since 31 Jul 2007 694 Posts Chucktown Flying Tomato

Sella · Fri Feb 13, 09 5:41 am

First the spotted owl and now brightly colored kites. Where's Larry Flint when you need him???

I wouldn't call Steve a dick because it's his right to voice his opinion but if you read his message he's drawing the line in the sand.....errrr....snow and and changing his opinion will be a loss of good beer money. Extreme advocacy groups never change their viewpoint and anyone who states "I can share this" loves to stir the pot and he made sure his viewpoint the BKC brought this on was heard, even though after he spoke up, access went sideways. Tree huggers 1, kiters 0, but the war is just beginning.

My personal opinion is the BKC was very proactive and intelligent enough to communicate with the USFS to make sure they were in compliance and Matt's offering was an excellent goodwill gesture to educate the opposition of the "green" factor of kiting and their willingness to cooperate fully. However, prepare for a long battle because wilderness access is longstanding issue and we all know Mother Earth is a touchy political subject.

Power in numbers so the US Snowkite Assoc is an excellent tool to start with for email but snowkiting is relatively new. You could possibly collect names from snowboarders at ski resorts but with the power of the internet I would happily donate to Kite and Snowboard magazine ad placements requesting support via www.thewildwilderness.org just to create confusion on who is for what.

Gee, do we know anybody on NW kite who works for magazines?????? Shocked

Just a thought.

kyle.vh · Since 11 Jul 2007 713 Posts city of angels Addicted

Sella, i dont think you read my post carefully. in my post i say he's a dick for declining coffee. and then i defend his opinion. which is not 'extreme advocacy' as we have mistakenly called it.
it is the majority opinion, shared by the USFS.
If you read silvers blogs carefully, he is mostly concerned with the USFS's decisions to commercialize wilderness, and not any particular activity. although snowmobiling is a non-starter for him.

Sol-flyer · Fri Feb 13, 09 4:20 pm

Good to get the ball rolling in the right direction, Is there an online petition or anything to sign?

kyle.vh · Since 11 Jul 2007 713 Posts city of angels Addicted

nothing online yet. i'm looking at it on my local drive but we need to decide on a URL.
I think we need to build an online membership, which will be the easy part. and get people hard-signing something. but we have to think carefully about what that is--the exact wording, so that we don't have to do it more than once.
i think we need legal counsel to advice the wording of any request/petition that will go to the USFS.
if anyone knows the right 'type' of lawyer to talk to, let me know. i'm going to get in touch with the Access Fund (www.accessfund.org) lawyers to see if they have any advice. they've been really successful in their legal endeavors.
matt (sol-flyer) we'll definately need the support of the SOKA.
I want to begin compiling an online google-map based database of images and locations of wilderness snowkiting. we need to show that we have a long history of access. please dig through your files, people. we need to know when and where, and images or other documentation if possible. we can make this non-public at first.
when we compare this--nearly a decade of SAFE access it will become clear how this was previously legal, and recently outlawed as a knee-jerk reaction.
I could use help theming this Drupal site if anyone can help. I can do the rest.

Sol-flyer · Mon Feb 23, 09 3:14 pm

I just wanted to mention this is a good time for all you snow stoked out kiters to help get involved with the U.S. snowkite Assoc. and help to keep kiting legal within wilderness.

-sol

kyle.vh · Since 11 Jul 2007 713 Posts city of angels Addicted

how do we get involved and/or sign up with the US snowkite association?
Is there a website to sign up at?

kochease · Since 03 Jul 2008 760 Posts In Ft. Stevens, OR Opinionated

I'm all for fighting those trowl tree huggers!! But once the gastopo makes up its mind it takes an army and alot of beatings to change the mind of the few. Mad

We will need A fortune to fight this in court. Any rich Kiteboarding Lawyers out there who want to fight this for the good of mankind??

Airnsails · Since 22 Jun 2005 104 Posts Hood River, OR Stoked

If you are a facebooker, The US Snowkite Association started a group and this is the best place to get info on what we are doing to promote events and keep the wilderness open to snowkiting.

pdxmonkeyboy · Wed Feb 25, 09 8:52 am

kyle.vh · Since 11 Jul 2007 713 Posts city of angels Addicted

In my talk with Jim Hasenuer, he recommended not going to court. A rush to court will likely result in a weak/and or wrong defense which would set a haunting precedence.
He also recommended starting a USsnowkite structure where each regional chapter works with their local BLM, Wilderness, USFS, WMA, and NP--where the goal is to specifically get snowkiting legal in each area and literally put into the Administrative Manual. The structure of all of these Fed. organizations is that they have Administrative oversight and can themselves legalize or outlaw any activity.
Lets start a community-based website that represents each regional group, build a membership base, and raise money.
http://www.imba.com/ (founded by Haseneur)
accessfund.org
This is the structure we need to adopt. They are very similar sports from a Wilderness standpoint, and both have been very successful at gaining and protecting access. The climbing community lost access to Mt Williamson three years ago due to Fed. laws, but they have have been getting it back, there's hope! Also, the access fund has secured access to Bulo Point in Hood River. The example of how to focus our efforts is right at home!
The reality is that some access will be lost. But if we group together now, we can begin to secure and grow our access. It's a fight, and we don't seem to have a team to play with. Lets move off of facebook and into a real webspace that will be useful to us. I would love to help develop this if others are motivated to use it...

Sol-flyer · Wed Feb 25, 09 9:30 am

good point kyle

I think the facebook thing is a great start, This at least shows the ball is rolling and there is interest. I see a lot of potential for a national infra-structure based on "grassroots" community groups, this could be beneficial as we work with the F.S. to a specific area's needs.

kyle.vh · Since 11 Jul 2007 713 Posts city of angels Addicted

thanks matty.
I do think facebook represents a good start, too.

Do you want to help form this org? Is there a formal or informal org already? I can push a useful website far, but I'm nervous to start if i'm just stepping on toes or going in a direction other people don't like.
I guess I need to check out the facebook group.