used gear rant

stringy · Since 23 Jun 2006 1738 Posts vancouver XTreme Poster

Last night I approached a beginner kiter on a local beach up here in seattle. This guy obviously had never been to this beach and was going to try and learn to kite. I walked up and questioned him and eventually encouraged him to pack it up. I noticed his setup and I questioned him on his gear.
“I bought it from a friend”.
It was a SS Fuel, at least 5 years old with ASI silkscreened on it.

What pissed me off was that he was sold this old kite and bar with no release system to flag out his side line.

I really have a problem with people getting into this sport on older used gear, but nothing I can really do about that. I guess just try and stay clear of them and hope they are smart enough to take lessons or whatever.

I seriously have great concern with someone who sells gear that they know is unsafe.

It’s one thing to sell you gear used, it’s another thing to sell gear that is unsafe. Maybe the seller was a beginner too, and never understood how a bar should work properly.
Do us all a favor and destroy your unsafe gear rather than sell it for two bits and watch one of these beginners, who don’t know squat about the gear or even a thing about kiting, get hurt on it. Kite control bars should have a flagging line. I’m pissed that this guy, who said he bought the kite from a friend in Portland, got an extremely unsafe bar and didn’t even understand what I was talking about with safety features.
I did encourage him to visit a local shop for info on lessons so hopefully he will visit one of them soon.
The beach up here in Seattle was actually an advanced riding spot with onshore conditions.

I'm posting on nwkite because the seller was from Portland. If you read this and are the one that sold him this gear, send me a PM, I'd like to understand why you sold this crap to someone.

Rant off.

pdxmonkeyboy · Fri Aug 29, 08 7:26 pm

is Mark from ASI still around?

I'm donating all my old gear to Kevin Kearney

hamlindp · Fri Aug 29, 08 7:36 pm

Are you sure that wasn't Kevin Kearny? Maybe he was exiled to Seattle Confused

Pepi · Fri Aug 29, 08 9:26 pm

This is a good post Jim.

With our shop being the main avenue for 2nd hand kites in Hood River, we made a decision this year to no longer accept "C" kites (with the exception of the newer Fuels) via our consignment sales department. Our decision was based on the fact that most all of our 2nd hand customers were newby kiters who had little if any knowledge of how to use a "C" kite and would truly only benefit from a kite that possessed a modern depower and safety system.

This new rule resulted in our receiving some negative comments from people upset that we would not sell their older used (mostly "C") kites, no matter how cheap they were willing to go.

Even with all this effort, at least once a week we still end up having customers come in looking for help on how to 'tune' their new used kite that was given to them by a friend for 'free'. These 'free' kites almost always turn out to be a high-aspect "C" kite, or 2-Line kite that they want us to convert over to 4-Line for them. We've worked hard on finding ways to not lose these potential new kiters, but it is hard when we end up being the messenger of bad news and explain to them that they will have to actually spend money to get into the sport.

I hope that the above comments aren't too over the top, but this summer was really weird with the 'free' kite situations and how many 2 line kites came in with these newby kiters.

If anyone comes up with a good idea for what to do with all the older kites that keep resurfacing in the used market, or where these could be donated, let's hear them.

Thanks
Pepi

Blue · Since 03 Jul 2007 469 Posts I used to be Obsessed

Devin · Since 28 Aug 2008 1 Posts New Member

I am a beginner in the Seattle area, Tacoma actually, and would appreciate any other advice you could share. I've had a few private lessons in HR with New Wind and feel ready to buy some gear and practice what I've learned. Mike at 2nd Wind already steered me away from C kites while I was there recently. He was very helpful.

I'm currently looking to buy a bow, SLE or hybrid. Is 14M about right for the wind in the area? Purdy is the main area I'm thinking of kiting. Have you been there? What's the wind been like? Is it blowing often. I've see others out there when the wind is wipping. Is it difficult to launch from there with the highway right there? Any other South Sound spots you could recommend? Another place I'm considering is Lake Cle Elum on the east side of the pass from Snoqualmie. I'm out there now with no gear and the wind is blowing about 13MPH. Appreciate any feedback on there if you've been.

My lessons were on a Waroo, but I've been considering the a 2007 or 2008 Cabrinha Contra 3. It has a wind range of 8 - 18. For my second kite, after I prove I'm committed to the sport, I'm considering a 7M or 9M Best Nemesis to cover a larger wind range in combination with the Contra. Thoughts?

Moto · Since 03 Sep 2006 2698 Posts Still a gojo pimp! Moto Mouth

Hey Devin, there is a link up at the top of the page to the right that says "seattle" - that will lead you to the seattle kiting forum. There are a lot of cool and very helpful guys on that site. there are some seattle kiters on this forum - but most of us are oregonians or spend a lot of time in the gorge.

I could be mistaken - but I think most of the guys that kite the Jetty fly C kites - (newer models) - I have talked to them and they say that they don't really need the depower at the Jetty - just what I have heard.

Good luck.

Nak · Sat Aug 30, 08 7:05 pm

Hi Devin, and welcome!

We don't do brand comparisons here, but folks will compare kites within brand. (Like Rev versus T3 or Contra Vs Switchblade.) You're on the right track with SLE or Bow though.

Your weight is pretty important when it comes to kite size. For instance, I weigh 210, and I need a 14 or 15 when the wind is 11 to 16 or so. At about 17 I switch to an 11. If you're 160, you'll probably never need anything bigger than an 11. Like Terremoto says, check on the Seattle forum for information about spots up there, but be sure and mention your weight.

Have fun!

rodeo clown · Since 29 Jan 2007 40 Posts Seattle Â

Purdy is a gnarly spot to launch from even with a low tide, the wind is side onshore to a highway right next to the beach, and right down wind are major power lines that smoked the mast off a sail boat not too long ago.
The only time its sailable is in a sw wind, so its mostly storm related and can get really juiced up and powerfull. The wind waves are short period and steep, I've seen it head high before and it can be a lot of fun but challenging to say the least.
If you go there be prepared to do short reaches and keep an eye on how downwind you are getting...dropping the kite and self rescueing when you drift down too far is a very real scenario.
There is a gooey duck farm in the shallows that can mess you up too, a whole bunch of concrete blocks all over the place.
I don't have a whole lot of experience there kiting, I used to hit it often when I was windsurfing. It worked me good and hard every time...be carefull man!

Hurricane Mike · Since 19 Jun 2006 128 Posts Stoked

I'm really glad that 2nd wind is taking a stand on this. Thanks Pepi !!

We also need more people like Jim, to speak up when they see something unsafe on the beach before the shit hits the fan (I know how hard it is). I just heard that most of the beaches in Vancouver are closed to kiting because of accidents. I'm sure no one wants that to happen to their local spots!!!

Thanks to Jim and Pepi!!!

Pepi Wrote:

Moto · Since 03 Sep 2006 2698 Posts Still a gojo pimp! Moto Mouth

Pepi · Sun Aug 31, 08 7:27 pm

Good point on the Vegas kites. We actually do have a couple of Vegas kites in our consignment, but we consider them to be a bit more of a modern hybrid kite with proper safety and depower.

On the Fuel note, just so that people understand why we accept them. If we have Fuels in consignment (which we have a good number of) they are primarily there for those die-hard fuel riders looking to keep the fire burning, and for newbies, we give a good explanation as to the the more advanced performance aspects of the Fuels as kites for more aggressive or progressive styled riders.

Balancing on the fine line between safe and sorry is tough, but I'm glad to hear that we are not alone.

Thanks for the support guys!

Pepi

thealohakid · Since 09 Aug 2006 58 Posts MAUI Â

When are we going to take responsibility for our own actions. What about the guy who got the free equipment because he could never afford it and now gets to get out and shares the same stoke we all get. The gear was good enough for the ones who have been around a while to learn on and I'm sure there are still die hard users who refuse to ride new kites. You get pissed at the guy who sold or gave him the gear.........give me a break. Unless he was advertising it as the safest best way to learn, and no instruction needed, you should be screaming at the dumba$$ trying to learn on old gear with no instruction. Most of the old gear is killing itself by delamination or the nipples are falling off the bladders. Maybe we should be pissed at airtime for fixing our kites which should have made it to the graveyard in the sky. (Thanks again for doing such a great job! You have saved me countless times!) This doesn't relieve the duty to patrol your kite areas. It makes it easier because they stand out. If somebody buys new equipment and trys to learn on their own, they risk hooking up things wrong so the kite won't sheet and saftey systems won't work anyway. People need to be held accountable for their own actions. We live in a Lawyer world where people are always trying to place blame on somebody.......It's gotta be somebody else's fault, right!?! Take responsibility for yourself and do whatever you have to do to GET OUT AND RIDE!!! I apologize for all the stoke I've shared through giving away old gear. Those smiles are forever embedded in my mind.

P.S. Thanks again Kevin for reminding us all that kiteboarding is an extreme sport for which extreme things can happen. Hopefully his message will keep someone who had no business in the sport anyway, out.

Wind Slither · Since 04 Mar 2005 2626 Posts The 503 METAL

Still confused by this stance. At first I thought it was just new comers to the sport who had decided that all the "old C kites" were "dangerous" but I assume Pepi has been around for a while. Of course as a shop owner you have everything to gain by declaring all the older stuff obsolete.

So what makes an 07 Fuel so much safer than a 05 Fuel? I (think) the answer is that the bar is redesigned to give a greater throw and depower range. If that's it, then why couldn't you sell someone an 05 kite with an 07 bar and still sleep at night?

In Stringy's post, he's upset because the guy didn't have a safety release system. Seems like the guy could remedy this without throwing the kite away.

blowhard · Since 26 Dec 2005 2027 Posts Windward

So all older gear is junk
because some buyer is a tool ?

I don't know about the rest of you but I was
pretty stoked to get my X-2's
in 2001
a few months ahead of most Very Happy

and they were certainly not junk Evil or Very Mad

kites don't kill kiters do Rolling Eyes

no shortage of tools either Laughing

There are a couple of older designs I wouldn't like to fly
and I bet there are some new ones too

stringy · Since 23 Jun 2006 1738 Posts vancouver XTreme Poster

just to restate,
my concern is with the tools who sell unsafe gear.
the control bar I witnessed did not have rings on the leaders on the steering lines. leader lines were fixed to the bar ends.
From my experience, the steering lines on the fourliners always had rings/OHSHIT handles on the bar ends allowing the kite to be flagged on one rear line.
One could assume the bar was modified.
Any experienced kiteboarder could look at this bar and determine that it would be unsafe to kite with.
I reserve my own opinions about older gear, but this thread is about someone selling unsafe gear.
period.

Hurricane Mike · Since 19 Jun 2006 128 Posts Stoked

From thealohakid: