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Bar with longer throw, but no depower for Gorge Foiling

 
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eric

Since 13 Jan 2006
1597 Posts

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PostTue Jun 23, 20 9:45 am    Bar with longer throw, but no depower for Gorge Foiling Reply with quote

I am finding that for foiling more throw is better, as a lot skills benefit from a FULLY sheeted out kite and a FULLY stretched out arm. I am also tall, so stock throw is too short at times. I see bars with longer throw but no depower system besides throw. I get that in steady wind places, but in Hood River?

Anyone out there who foils in the gusty Gorge gone to a no depower system who can chime in? Looking for 65 cm (25") of throw vs my current 21"

Thanks,
Eric

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Sasquatch

Since 09 Mar 2005
1820 Posts
P-town
STACKED



PostTue Jun 23, 20 10:05 am     Reply with quote

Eric: I like all the questions you pose on the forum. Keep it up. I have nothing to add RE your Q on no depower and foiling. I think the biggest bar I've seen since 2003 is 24''.

I've also seen on this forum an all wood, hand carved bar--photos included.

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jeremy

Since 18 Aug 2006
250 Posts
Manzanita
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PostTue Jun 23, 20 11:10 am     Reply with quote

The answer is to make your own !!

The Naish bars I learned on came with 32" or 36" of throw so I got used to having lots of throw, they all had below bar depower to deal with adjusting the sweet spot. You kind of need below bar depower with long throw bars as it's hard to have an above bar depower setup if you cannot reach it.

I typically make trim-lines with 32" of throw now and put a sliding stopper on it or a fixed stopper at 24". There's a good thread someone posted a long time ago on how to make a trimline with 1/8" amsteel doubling back through itself, these are great because when the outside part breaks, you can get back to shore, no trimline worries when you're flying on one of these (and they also last longer somehow). My last unexpected failure was my chickenloop snapped, rope inside broke due to sand abrasion over time, hard to catch this unless they go to a transparent rubber vs black.


   loop - Edited.jpg 

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caps

Since 23 Dec 2010
335 Posts

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PostTue Jun 23, 20 11:13 am     Reply with quote

Check out the cloud bars. No depower and as long a throw as you'd like. I'm sure you could find one to borrow for a sesh. Same pigtail/knot setup as a SS bar

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Sasquatch

Since 09 Mar 2005
1820 Posts
P-town
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PostTue Jun 23, 20 11:42 am     Reply with quote

jeremy wrote:
The answer is to make your own !!

There's a good thread someone posted a long time ago on how to make a trimline with 1/8" amsteel doubling back through itself, these are great because when the outside part breaks, you can get back to shore, no trimline worries when you're flying on one of these (and they also last longer somehow).


Jeremy is this the post you're referring to?

http://www.nwkite.com/forums/t-31373.html&highlight=amsteel

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mamann

Since 16 Jul 2007
60 Posts
Gorge East
 



PostTue Jun 23, 20 11:58 am     Reply with quote

Here is what I use.

It is a standard slingshot below the bar trim setup. I made my own depower rope using Nak's advice of Amsteel blue doubled up(there is a post on here somewhere). I currently have 28" of throw, which is just right for me on Clouds for foiling. Before I made the mod, I would burn through the stock depower ropes every couple months and the short throw didn't allow for the full potential of the kite. With this setup the rope is wearing great(also comes out of the cleat easily) and with the extra throw in the bar, I can now fully depower the kite and find I rarely touch the trim. Having the extra throw makes toe to heel tacks and everything else much easier.


   P1110825.JPG 

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eric

Since 13 Jan 2006
1597 Posts

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PostTue Jun 23, 20 1:03 pm     Reply with quote

Ok. The Nak method looks good. Going that route. Thanks much!

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eric

Since 13 Jan 2006
1597 Posts

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PostTue Jun 23, 20 1:39 pm     Reply with quote

I like your system. Did you need to lengthen outside lines/leaders/adjust at kite with increased throw length?

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mamann

Since 16 Jul 2007
60 Posts
Gorge East
 



PostTue Jun 23, 20 1:59 pm     Reply with quote

No other adjustments other than I do use the small chicken loop, as this make the longer throw more accessible.
I made the depower rope extra long. Then was able to trim to the sweet spot and then cut off any excess. Where it's trimmed in the picture, is right before it back stalls(it's nice to have a little extra, so that you can always trim to the maximum power point on the kite, as it changes with different kites)

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bigjohn

Since 13 Mar 2012
540 Posts

Addicted



PostTue Jun 23, 20 2:48 pm     Reply with quote

eric wrote:
I like your system. Did you need to lengthen outside lines/leaders/adjust at kite with increased throw length?


I used two bungees to better match the longer throw on a custom bar.

I'm talking about the safety bungee.

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Pepi

Since 16 Jun 2006
1774 Posts
Hood River's local kite
Shop Owner

CGKA Member


PostThu Jun 25, 20 12:22 am     Reply with quote

I might have a bar for you to try out at the shop Eric.
I have to dig through our Airush display inventory, but I'm pretty sure I have this bar available that you could demo.
I originally did not think that Gorge kiters would be interested in a bar with no depower, but it has been a very popular bar for Airush dealers in other areas of the world who have advanced level foilers.

https://airush.com/kites/ultra-bar-v2/

ULTRA BAR
Minimalist, versatile & lightweight.
Extended bar throw.
Compact pre-set trim system.
Staying true to the Ultra name and philosophy, the Ultra Bar delivers a control system that is extremely simple, versatile, and lightweight for advanced riders. Having removed the ability to trim on demand by eliminating the bulky straps or cleats, the depower line is completely clear so that riders can utilize the full extension of their reach for the maximum amount of range.

KEY FEATURES:
Lightweight control bar.
Set and forget trim system.
Small & wave slider harness loop.

BAR LENGTH:

50cm – 60cm Adjustable.
4 Line Bar.

LINE LENGTH:
24m total = 1m leader lines + 21m lower lines + 3m upper lines.

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eric

Since 13 Jan 2006
1597 Posts

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PostThu Jun 25, 20 6:51 am     Reply with quote

Awesome--I will swing by today Pepi. Teaching math until 10:30 then come by the shop.

Really curious about a bar with long throw, but no other depower. I use mine a lot vs re-rigging currently.

E

PS: 1 + 21 + 3 = 25 Very Happy

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macgruber

Since 06 Dec 2011
450 Posts
SE PDX volcano
Obsessed



PostThu Jun 25, 20 8:35 pm    Ocean Rodeo Click bar Reply with quote

My Ocean Rodeo Click bar has about 3’ of throw with an adjustable stopper.

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scottm

Since 12 Jun 2006
93 Posts

 



PostSat Jul 11, 20 7:25 am     Reply with quote

Eric, here are pics of the bars I showed you the other day. One super simple with no depower, works great on mellow days but not great when it's a kite size lighter at the event site vs the Washington side. One with the Sentinel above-bar depower moved below the bar, my current favorite. And one mostly stock for the coast, where a quick eject in big waves can be a life saver. I set the upper stopper ball so I can reach the bar after spinning it with the kite low, and the lower stopper ball to partly back stall the kite for drift, without it falling out of the sky. It's amazing how much lighter the two simple bars are, I'd say half to a third the weight of a stock bar and lines, and the kite feels noticeably more responsive.

I attach them all to a Tylaska T8 snap shackle on a Ride Engine slider bar. The pulley is a Harken 29mm T2 Carbo Block, super light and no metal bearings to rust.

All lines have Brummel splices, very clean and self-locking. Here is the "easy" way when you have both ends available:
https://www.animatedknots.com/brummel-eye-splice-knot-demo
And the "harder" way with one end available:
https://www.animatedknots.com/brummel-eye-splice-knot

I mark the line at 3", 5", and 7 or 8" (8 for bigger 3" loops at the bar/ring and 7 for smaller 2" loops at the kite lines), make the brummel lock, bury the 5" end and push it out of the main line, then cut at 3" at a 45 degree angle, leaving 2" buried. The extra 3" makes the bury a lot easier. One of these days I'll make a how-to post, similar to Nak's dual layer depower method.


   bar3.jpg 
   bar2.jpg 
   bar1.jpg 

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Singlemalt

Since 21 Jun 2015
277 Posts
White Salmon
Obsessed



PostSat Jul 11, 20 12:29 pm     Reply with quote

Man, that last bar picture looks super clean and simple!

I've need to look into the shackle and slider bar thing.

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eric

Since 13 Jan 2006
1597 Posts

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PostSat Jul 11, 20 2:21 pm     Reply with quote

All o them look very nice. I am partial to #2

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