Bar with longer throw, but no depower for Gorge Foiling

eric · Since 13 Jan 2006 1840 Posts XTreme Poster

I am finding that for foiling more throw is better, as a lot skills benefit from a FULLY sheeted out kite and a FULLY stretched out arm. I am also tall, so stock throw is too short at times. I see bars with longer throw but no depower system besides throw. I get that in steady wind places, but in Hood River?

Anyone out there who foils in the gusty Gorge gone to a no depower system who can chime in? Looking for 65 cm (25") of throw vs my current 21"

Thanks,
Eric

Sasquatch · Since 09 Mar 2005 2088 Posts PNW Bigfoot

Eric: I like all the questions you pose on the forum. Keep it up. I have nothing to add RE your Q on no depower and foiling. I think the biggest bar I've seen since 2003 is 24''.

I've also seen on this forum an all wood, hand carved bar--photos included.

jeremy · Since 18 Aug 2006 274 Posts Manzo & HR Obsessed

The answer is to make your own !!

The Naish bars I learned on came with 32" or 36" of throw so I got used to having lots of throw, they all had below bar depower to deal with adjusting the sweet spot. You kind of need below bar depower with long throw bars as it's hard to have an above bar depower setup if you cannot reach it.

I typically make trim-lines with 32" of throw now and put a sliding stopper on it or a fixed stopper at 24". There's a good thread someone posted a long time ago on how to make a trimline with 1/8" amsteel doubling back through itself, these are great because when the outside part breaks, you can get back to shore, no trimline worries when you're flying on one of these (and they also last longer somehow). My last unexpected failure was my chickenloop snapped, rope inside broke due to sand abrasion over time, hard to catch this unless they go to a transparent rubber vs black.

caps · Since 23 Dec 2010 347 Posts Obsessed

Check out the cloud bars. No depower and as long a throw as you'd like. I'm sure you could find one to borrow for a sesh. Same pigtail/knot setup as a SS bar

Sasquatch · Since 09 Mar 2005 2088 Posts PNW Bigfoot

mamann · Since 16 Jul 2007 76 Posts Gorge East

Here is what I use.

It is a standard slingshot below the bar trim setup. I made my own depower rope using Nak's advice of Amsteel blue doubled up(there is a post on here somewhere). I currently have 28" of throw, which is just right for me on Clouds for foiling. Before I made the mod, I would burn through the stock depower ropes every couple months and the short throw didn't allow for the full potential of the kite. With this setup the rope is wearing great(also comes out of the cleat easily) and with the extra throw in the bar, I can now fully depower the kite and find I rarely touch the trim. Having the extra throw makes toe to heel tacks and everything else much easier.

eric · Since 13 Jan 2006 1840 Posts XTreme Poster

Ok. The Nak method looks good. Going that route. Thanks much!

eric · Since 13 Jan 2006 1840 Posts XTreme Poster

I like your system. Did you need to lengthen outside lines/leaders/adjust at kite with increased throw length?

mamann · Since 16 Jul 2007 76 Posts Gorge East

No other adjustments other than I do use the small chicken loop, as this make the longer throw more accessible.
I made the depower rope extra long. Then was able to trim to the sweet spot and then cut off any excess. Where it's trimmed in the picture, is right before it back stalls(it's nice to have a little extra, so that you can always trim to the maximum power point on the kite, as it changes with different kites)

bigjohn · Since 13 Mar 2012 663 Posts Addicted

Pepi · Thu Jun 25, 20 12:22 am

I might have a bar for you to try out at the shop Eric.
I have to dig through our Airush display inventory, but I'm pretty sure I have this bar available that you could demo.
I originally did not think that Gorge kiters would be interested in a bar with no depower, but it has been a very popular bar for Airush dealers in other areas of the world who have advanced level foilers.

https://airush.com/kites/ultra-bar-v2/

ULTRA BAR
Minimalist, versatile & lightweight.
Extended bar throw.
Compact pre-set trim system.
Staying true to the Ultra name and philosophy, the Ultra Bar delivers a control system that is extremely simple, versatile, and lightweight for advanced riders. Having removed the ability to trim on demand by eliminating the bulky straps or cleats, the depower line is completely clear so that riders can utilize the full extension of their reach for the maximum amount of range.

KEY FEATURES:
Lightweight control bar.
Set and forget trim system.
Small & wave slider harness loop.

BAR LENGTH:

50cm – 60cm Adjustable.
4 Line Bar.

LINE LENGTH:
24m total = 1m leader lines + 21m lower lines + 3m upper lines.

eric · Since 13 Jan 2006 1840 Posts XTreme Poster

Awesome--I will swing by today Pepi. Teaching math until 10:30 then come by the shop.

Really curious about a bar with long throw, but no other depower. I use mine a lot vs re-rigging currently.

E

PS: 1 + 21 + 3 = 25 Very Happy

macgruber · Since 06 Dec 2011 490 Posts SE PDX volcano Obsessed

My Ocean Rodeo Click bar has about 3’ of throw with an adjustable stopper.

scottm · Since 12 Jun 2006 108 Posts Stoked

Eric, here are pics of the bars I showed you the other day. One super simple with no depower, works great on mellow days but not great when it's a kite size lighter at the event site vs the Washington side. One with the Sentinel above-bar depower moved below the bar, my current favorite. And one mostly stock for the coast, where a quick eject in big waves can be a life saver. I set the upper stopper ball so I can reach the bar after spinning it with the kite low, and the lower stopper ball to partly back stall the kite for drift, without it falling out of the sky. It's amazing how much lighter the two simple bars are, I'd say half to a third the weight of a stock bar and lines, and the kite feels noticeably more responsive.

I attach them all to a Tylaska T8 snap shackle on a Ride Engine slider bar. The pulley is a Harken 29mm T2 Carbo Block, super light and no metal bearings to rust.

All lines have Brummel splices, very clean and self-locking. Here is the "easy" way when you have both ends available:
https://www.animatedknots.com/brummel-eye-splice-knot-demo
And the "harder" way with one end available:
https://www.animatedknots.com/brummel-eye-splice-knot

I mark the line at 3", 5", and 7 or 8" (8 for bigger 3" loops at the bar/ring and 7 for smaller 2" loops at the kite lines), make the brummel lock, bury the 5" end and push it out of the main line, then cut at 3" at a 45 degree angle, leaving 2" buried. The extra 3" makes the bury a lot easier. One of these days I'll make a how-to post, similar to Nak's dual layer depower method.

Singlemalt · Since 21 Jun 2015 474 Posts White Salmon Obsessed

Man, that last bar picture looks super clean and simple!

I've need to look into the shackle and slider bar thing.

eric · Since 13 Jan 2006 1840 Posts XTreme Poster

All o them look very nice. I am partial to #2

kiterland · Since 11 Aug 2009 165 Posts Stoked

Hi Scott

It was good to talk to you the other day at Rufus about your bars. I do like your bar #2! How can we convince you to do a 'how to build instructional video'?

I mentioned the flying lines that I am using with my SS bar and wanted to provide more details here. I ordered them from SKShapes here:

https://www.skshapes.com/shop/flying-lines/

I use the Freeride version 1.1mm/1.5mm 20m

You mentioned a specific supplier for flying lines. Could you post that name again. I forgot.

Thanks for sharing your information. It's very helpful.