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user124
Since 02 Aug 2012
391 Posts
Portland
Obsessed
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 Mon Jul 10, 17 8:32 pm |
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| Matt V wrote: |
How would you react to some publicly posting the suggestion that you be sued for all you are worth when someone trips on some uneven turf on your front lawn?
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Wait a second - are we talking about some poor old lady who got sued when someone turned an ankle on her lawn, or a multi-BILLION dollar railroad corporation whose trains are killing people and whose agents then have the gall to start issuing criminal trespass citations to citizens simply trying to find a footpath to otherwise inaccessible PUBLIC LAND?! For a minute I was confused by your poor analogy 
The lunacy of the situation is overwhelming. So I should not express outrage over the actions of the BNSF? What, because they might get annoyed? They just want this to go away. They quietly go out and issue a few citations as an ass-covering move, knowing it does nothing to make the situation safer or better and won't deter people of all types (not just kiters BTW) trying to visit a scenic sandbar beach on public land.
Yes, the BNSF could get angry and put up fences, game cameras, waste a bunch more time and money on enforcement. They could even put up guard towers and razor wire. But they won't. That would be too expensive. The BNSF is a business (actually a public corporation owned by Berkshire-Hathaway). They are responsible to their shareholders and just want to do what will cost the least and expose them to minimal liability.
What they need to do is step up and do what is standard practice across the country wherever railroad tracks intersect with enough public traffic. I'm not asking for the moon. I just want them to 1) put up a gate with some warning lights and bells and 2) stop citing people for criminal trespass who are briefly crossing the tracks to get to public land.
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wylieflyote
Since 30 Jun 2006
1647 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
XTreme Poster
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| Tue Jul 11, 17 6:15 am |
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Need a float-ride Friday for 2 visitors from out-of-town. Whiskey, beer... si tu quieres.
PM me for phone #
Kip Wylie
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CGKA Member
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Kip Wylie |
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Windstoked
Since 21 May 2013
43 Posts
Norcal
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| Tue Jul 11, 17 6:21 am |
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No, Freeride, I haven't been there, and after checking this photo of the bridge from Google maps, I understand the challenge. You'd have to be an expert rock climber to stay within the flood zone (probably five feet or so above the summer level). Swimming or floating under the bridge is definitely legal, however.
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Lyle Train Bridge.JPG |
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wylieflyote
Since 30 Jun 2006
1647 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
XTreme Poster
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| Tue Jul 11, 17 6:24 am |
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| user124 wrote: | | The lunacy of the situation is overwhelming. |
We all can complain as much as we like, but we often forget that one of the "rules" at the fight club is No kiting within the (flat) waters of the Klicatat River. On the few times I've been there I've always observed kiters violating this code. It's too tempting as the quality for boost is so much nicer.
It's a silly illogical rule but after you've pissed on the Dept of Fisheries, Indians, and just the average Joe fisherman our case for access gets weak.
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CGKA Member
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Kip Wylie |
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FreerideWhiteSalmon
Since 17 May 2012
64 Posts
CGKA Member
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| Tue Jul 11, 17 6:32 am |
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| Windstoked wrote: | | No, Freeride, I haven't been there, and after checking this photo of the bridge from Google maps, I understand the challenge. You'd have to be an expert rock climber to stay within the flood zone (probably five feet or so above the summer level). Swimming or floating under the bridge is definitely legal, however. |
Yep, that's the issue. Right now the water is way lower and it's basically a slot canyon under that bridge, filled with water right up to the walls on either side.
It also looks like that at least for a little ways north, so not sure where you would park and launch for a SUP ride under. The Cove Rd. boat launch starts looking like the easiest access to launch anything from and keep it legal.
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treitz
Since 07 Jun 2016
83 Posts
Hood River
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| Tue Jul 11, 17 7:16 am |
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| wylieflyote wrote: | | user124 wrote: | | The lunacy of the situation is overwhelming. |
We all can complain as much as we like, but we often forget that one of the "rules" at the fight club is No kiting within the (flat) waters of the Klicatat River. On the few times I've been there I've always observed kiters violating this code. It's too tempting as the quality for boost is so much nicer.
It's a silly illogical rule but after you've pissed on the Dept of Fisheries, Indians, and just the average Joe fisherman our case for access gets weak. |
Last time I was there I saw 2 - 3 people on the East side. The first time I went, there had to of been 10 people over there. I didn't even know it was a rule until it was brought up yesterday.
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Matt V
Since 26 Oct 2014
462 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
Explosive Diarrhea
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| Tue Jul 11, 17 8:45 am |
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| user124 wrote: | | So I should not express outrage over the actions of the BNSF? |
I am afraid I am "spittin on a fish" on this one, but I will try anyway.
You THREATENED the railroad, via the suggestion of a 3rd party lawsuit. That is NOT how you work together to remedy access/liability issues.
When someone threatens you, do you instantly capitulate? Or do you escalate self defense measures and become more combative? I have never met you that I know of, but I am positive YOU operate in the latter sense. I am pretty sure that the BNSF unfortunately operates in your manner too. Typically, if 2 parties approach the situation with this same attitude, it inevitably leads to an impasse.
Snowkiting (and all other outdoor recreation) has an extremely hard time getting access to private land because of your exact attitude, or the perception that land owners have that this attitude exists in those looking to gain access to their property. And I do not care if it is a little old lady who gets sued. She has insurance right? You are actually just suing a large insurance corporation. The BNSF is insured too (self insurance fund likely with reinsurance). As does a struggling 4th generation farmer in Iowa who has 6million dollars worth of land for you to sue for in excess of his liability policy. Does this make it right?
Look real hard at yourself in the situation with respect to your actions and words. If you do not believe there is that "1 in a 1000" kiter messing it up for all of us, then it is you.
Calm down, look at the facts, look at the issues from both sides, and try to lose the "us against them" attitude. This last part is especially important when negotiating from a position of weakness.
And at least consider those who are donating their time to resolve this issue. You are making it difficult to the point that they may never have a chance to reach a compromise.
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MSN has temporarily removed commenting on our websites while we explore better ways for you to engage in discussion on the issues you care about. |
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user124
Since 02 Aug 2012
391 Posts
Portland
Obsessed
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| Tue Jul 11, 17 10:51 am |
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| Matt V wrote: |
You THREATENED the railroad, via the suggestion of a 3rd party lawsuit. That is NOT how you work together to remedy access/liability issues.
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I didn't THREATEN anyone. I simply mentioned the liability issues when people die on the railroad tracks. This is surely obvious to the railroad and isn't some kind of big secret that I'm exposing. I'm just pointing out the facts, and making a call for appropriate action. Unlike you, I'm not trying to be the self-proclaimed voice of the "kiting community", instructing people to change their posts. If you don't like what I say, you are welcome to just ignore me and move on. And if you think one persons' post on an internet forum is going to trash some kind of delicate negotiation with the railroad by hurting their feelings then you clearly don't understand the way the world works. The railroad is motived by money and liability (which indirectly comes down to money). Get a grip man.
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bigjohn
Since 13 Mar 2012
663 Posts
Addicted
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| Tue Jul 11, 17 11:49 am |
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| user124 wrote: |
If it was my job to prevent fatalities, I would monitor locations where large numbers of illegal track crossing occur, and then provide a safe pedestrian crossing at that site. It's not that hard. Just like for roads, make safe crosswalks instead of relying on jaywalking tickets as a deterrent. Maybe what the BNSF needs is a good lawsuit from the family of one of the fatalities to address the willful ignorance on the part of the BNSF regarding this ongoing issue. |
While it is understandable that there is a lot of pent up frustration that we are unable to access the river and beaches along the Columbia River because of the railroad... attacking the railroad will NOT improve the situation.
Perhaps a review of the Keystone Pipeline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_Pipeline will bring to light the futility in threatening such a powerful entity as the Railroad and expecting any sort of positive results. Protests with 35,000 - 50,000 people, backings of powerhouse such as tribes, Sierra Club, even presidential nominees didn't have the clout to stop a new project, much less an existing railroad that has property rights that predate states.
If anyone wants to take a personal stand on this issue then I recommend they post when they will be crossing the railroad tracks along with what they will be wearing and what they will be driving (be sure to add your license plate number) such that the railroad police can single them out to give tickets so they can become martyrs and attempt to take their battle to the courts.
However, I believe the majority of kiters here recognize that the best option on the table is to work through channels such as Commissioner David Sauter as well as CGKA in an effort to find a potential solution that is agreeable to all parties involved.
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Kiting starts at 40MPH |
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deminimis
Since 15 Jul 2014
326 Posts
On the Rocks
Obsessed
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| Tue Jul 11, 17 12:18 pm |
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| John is correct. It's been a long while, but at one time in my life, a job with AWA would have been the greatest thing imaginable ("whitewater," not "wrestling"). However, couldn't raise a fam on that, so chose other avenues. That said, there is no portage law in WA. Although we have the right to enjoy the navigable waters of WA, we can't trespass (and in looking at the pic of the BNSF bridge, the only way to access the spit and not get your feet wet is to trespass.) So, please access the spit legally, via water, or just don't do it, and allow the good folks working on this to work their magic ( and not get sideswiped by having trespass activity being thrown in their faces during negotiations). My 2 pesos.
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FreerideWhiteSalmon
Since 17 May 2012
64 Posts
CGKA Member
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| Tue Jul 11, 17 12:42 pm |
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| deminimis wrote: | | John is correct. It's been a long while, but at one time in my life, a job with AWA would have been the greatest thing imaginable ("whitewater," not "wrestling"). However, couldn't raise a fam on that, so chose other avenues. That said, there is no portage law in WA. Although we have the right to enjoy the navigable waters of WA, we can't trespass (and in looking at the pic of the BNSF bridge, the only way to access the spit and not get your feet wet is to trespass.) So, please access the spit legally, via water, or just don't do it, and allow the good folks working on this to work their magic ( and not get sideswiped by having trespass activity being thrown in their faces during negotiations). My 2 pesos. |
Well said. I think now that they seem to be enforcing, getting there on some sort of boat is the best option.
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ldhr
Since 21 Jul 2009
1487 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster
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| Tue Jul 11, 17 1:13 pm |
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Access across the tracks is one problem.
Kiting in the river mouth where the locals fish is just as big a problem.
We need their support and they will not support kiting if we continue to kite on the east side of the delta. They've been fishing there for 100 years - they deserve respect.
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wannabekiter
Since 14 May 2015
269 Posts
Hood river
Obsessed
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| Tue Jul 11, 17 2:25 pm lyle |
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I noticed some people kiting in the mouth yesterday. They probably don't know any better. How about some signage explaining why you should not kite there. I will chip in on the signs and help place them by boat or jet ski. 
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zipperline
Since 02 Aug 2005
66 Posts
Hood River
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| Tue Jul 11, 17 4:16 pm |
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It's all pretty simple straight forward and obvious that YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO KITE AT LYLE.........
SO STOP KITING THERE.. I've lived here since 91 and the CGWA has done a ton to keep access alive for windsurfing. Until people put together a solid kite association nothing will ever happen to give us more access to the river..
I hope everyone gets fined every time you go to LYLE..
It is also probably one of the worst stretches
of river in the gorge for wind and water quality...
It's all the newbies moving here plus tourists breaking the rules.. Not just at Lyle.
If you want to learn how to kite Take a lesson.. Go to Floras lake or Hatteras,South Padre etc..
Better yet move there instead of here..
Rant Over
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wannabekiter
Since 14 May 2015
269 Posts
Hood river
Obsessed
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| Tue Jul 11, 17 7:09 pm Rant |
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Hey ranter as far as i know its legal to kite on the west side of the lyle spit.
Its not legal to cross the rail road tracks. I agree we need a paid rep for CGKA. The cgka needs to join the cgwa and collect membership dues from all kiters.
But lets be realistic,people are going to kite lyle. So some signs would be a good start.
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zipperline
Since 02 Aug 2005
66 Posts
Hood River
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| Tue Jul 11, 17 7:18 pm |
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So how do you get there to kite on the west side with out breaking the rules????
I feel sorry for you even wanting to kite there.. Lamest spot in the gorge....
You are the ones that are ruining things for everyone.. Rules are rules and laws are laws.
FOLLOW THEM or go back to where you came from....
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wannabekiter
Since 14 May 2015
269 Posts
Hood river
Obsessed
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| Tue Jul 11, 17 7:45 pm |
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| By jet ski. See ya I'm done here
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